Why LOTR is the work of the devil - Page 3

***HOBBIT*** · 07-14-2002, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lanelf
Not that 9/11 reference *AGAIN*!
Did the people who write these things know that Tolkien was... Pardon the estimate, I need to catch up on my history... about 50 years before 9/11, and thus had to be either a time-traveller or a seer to name his book the Two Towers in reference to that?

</rant>

Anyway, Tolkien's Towers were Orthanc and Minas Tirith, if I recall correctly. I read it on the back of one of the books ages ago.

]

Obviously you have not even read it. There is no mention of The Two Towers meaning 9/11 in this one. Read what wayfarer said again.....

Panther2112 · 07-15-2002, 12:33 PM

I read the article and found it somewhat amusing. I believe very strongly in the Creator and found nothing evil in the books or movie. I love rock and roll and do not do drugs, not that this fact has anything to do with TLOTRs. Some people need to get a grip. Is it a sin to read fantasy, to listen to a certain type of music. I don't think God would object (although I am no expert). Life can be tough sometimes, so whats wrong with a little escapism through books and movies. Nothing! Lets just love one another and not be so judgemental.

ladyisme · 07-15-2002, 05:41 PM

Well said Panther2112, I happen to agree with the general opinion that the author of this artical should get himself a healthy dose of reality. For example, just because someone you don't approve of writes a song inspired by a certain author's work doesn't mean you should blame the author. After all, how a composer happens to translate a story into music has as much to do with the composer's own personal taste as with what the author wrote. Just look at the wide range of music in the Rivendell branch of the Tolkien Trail, all that music was inspired by the same work but if you listen you can hear that the music of each composer sounds very different from the others.

Quote:

"The road goes ever on and on down from the door where it began."

Wayfarer · 07-15-2002, 08:47 PM

Reality check indeed.

I wonder what he would say about me, a devoted christian, writing tolkien inspired songs?

Wait a minute, I know... he'd say I should give up writing.

Panther2112 · 07-15-2002, 09:40 PM

I think both Ladyisme and Wayfarer show just how off base this person is. Since I have become envolved in this site, I have read many post by decent and kind people. If that's Santinism, well I guess I'm going to burn. Tolkien has given us a tresure in his books. A truley classic piece of literature that shows a great diversity of characters, some noble and good, some evil. But in the end love and courage conquer evil. Thank you very much indeed Mr. Tolkien.

Katt_knome_hobbit · 07-15-2002, 11:34 PM

That's it, now they've gone too far.

Quote:

C.S. Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith, rejecting such things as the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ.

How can they not belive Lewis's faith? He became a Christian because of writing the Narnia series!

Dissing Tolkien is just stupid ramblings, but dissing C.S. Lewis and doubting his faith is blasphemy.

Strange-Looking Lurker · 07-16-2002, 06:02 PM

Umm...blasphemy?

Strange-Looking Lurker · 07-16-2002, 06:14 PM

Interesting....I was just looking at the part about Harry Potter and it said that World Magazine liked and recomended it. That's a lie. They are very much against Harry Potter.

Entlover · 07-16-2002, 07:50 PM

Okay, I read it too.

C.S. Lewis is a "Christian of sorts?" That's like saying Billy Graham is a Christian of sorts. Lewis is only the 20th century's premier apologist.

And the guy obviously equate Catholics with non-Christians.

The world is full of ignorant people. The best thing to do is ignore them.

sun-star · 07-17-2002, 01:36 PM

These are my favourite bits:

Quote:

In his last interview, two years before his death, he unhesitatingly testified, "I’m a devout Roman Catholic."

Quote:

Tolkien, in fact, is credited with influencing Lewis to become a Christian of sorts. Like Tolkien, though, Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith, rejecting such things as the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ. And like Tolkien, C.S. Lewis loved at least some things about Catholicism. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest

They perfectly combine prejudice, ignorance, and intolerance. It's amazing.

Obviously Tolkien's real crime is not writing a book with occult imagery, it's not being the kind of Christian the author approves of. He must be very arrogant to think he can make that kind of judgement about someone else's faith.

Oh wait, I forgot this bit:

Quote:

Though I have forgotten many of the details of the books, I can recall very vividly that they are filled with occultic imagery.

Wayfarer · 07-17-2002, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Like Tolkien, though, Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith.

Umm... I'm pretty sure he did accept the bible, and it was not New Testament faith that he rejected, but the psuedo christianity that is still popular today.

Khadrane · 07-17-2002, 10:49 PM

People like that author make me so mad! I have to go break something.

***Tessar*** · 07-20-2002, 11:03 AM

I sent the dude an e-mail.

Hi,
My name is Anthony and I'm 13 years old.
I felt that there were some things wrong in what you said so I would like to say my views on a few of them.

There is white magic and black magic in Tolkien’s fantasies.

I could be very wrong but I think the point is that there are good and bad magic users. Also did you know that all the "wizards" were actually spirits that were sent to middle earth in the form of old men? So they aren't people who have "studied magic". They have the powers of Eru (God) in them and they can use them for good or evil. Sauruman was the only "wizard" who turned to evil (other than Sauron [Satan]). My mother hates the idea of wizards and such. But she likes Gandalf. He isn't throwing fireballs everywhere. He rarely uses his "magic" and he RESPECTS it. He fears power. That is why he didn't take the ring.

Tolkien’s books created the vast and spiritually dangerous fantasy role-playing games that are so influential today.

I'm very sorry sir but that is like saying that Orville and his brother made kamikazes. Tolkien defined the genre of fantasy. EVERY ONE copies from him in one-way or another. The people who made D&D just copied some of the stuff. And no, I am not defending D&D. I hate D&D but I enjoy Role Playing. My mother told me that Role Playing was all right so long as there was no magic in it. Fantasy doesn't HAVE to have magic.

Tolkien certainly did get his ideas from pagan religions, and the message promoted in his fantasy books is strictly pagan.
I may need to reread it but please point to the verse that says "Worship Eru. All other God(s) are false".

ROCK AND ROLLERS LOVE TOLKIEN

Most people do you know.

The song "Misty Mountain Hop" by the demonic hard rock group, Led Zeppelin, was inspired by Tolkien’s writings.

What led you that conclusion? I have never heard the song and so can't speak of it myself. Also people can take a good thing and do bad stuff to it. Like people who steal the Eucharist for their "Black Mass" and desecrate the host.

The world knows its own; and when the demonic world of fantasy role-playing and the morally filthy world of rock and roll love something, you can be sure it is not godly and it is not the truth.

1. Fantasy Role Playing isn't always demonic (although most of it is, unfortunately :\)
2. Not all rock and roll is filthy. Although if you speak only of the "Hard rock" parts I really couldn't say. I don't listen to it.

Also may I mention about Tolkien being into ancient mythology. It would have to be pagan. Everything was back then. There were no “Catholics” for quite some time.

I'm glad that you did write this though. It shows some interesting things that I never would have thought of.

Anthony-the-overactive-chipmunk

P.S. You have some nice LOTR pics up there. Really like the one of Sir Ian. He seems nice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actualy what I ment was. Thanks for writing this, I was board and e-mailing you gave me something to do. You are clearly a fool and I never would have thought up such trash myself in a million years.

heh, too bad it would have ben rude to add that

There is white magic and black magic in Tolkien’s fantasies.

Wayfarer · 07-20-2002, 05:07 PM

Tessar, I'm going to be nice and not nitpick your letter.

Good show.

BeardofPants · 07-20-2002, 06:15 PM

I'm sorry Tessar, but I don't think that letter is going to help. Next time you want to shoot yourself in the foot, at least get someone to help you aim a little higher.

Handmaiden of Yavanna · 07-20-2002, 10:12 PM

I just read the artical and all I can say is that that is the worst bunch of crap I have heard in a long time!!!

I mean seriously, I understand that everyone has a right to their own opinion but their argument was taking it too far!! LOTR is a wonderfull fantasy with even better morals displayed in it!!

Good for you Tessar!! Thank you for sending that letter even though it won't change the dude's mind atleast it will let him know that their are some differing opinions in the world!!!

OMG that makes me sooooo mad!!

***Tessar*** · 07-20-2002, 11:23 PM

I know it wont make a diff

I was completly board.

Christiana · 08-05-2002, 02:22 PM

er,i think melkor is more of a satan figure.

jerseydevil · 08-05-2002, 11:04 PM

I didn't read the article - but does this mean I can trade in my Satanic Bible for LotR?

Just kidding people. Although I do have a copy of it - but it's packed away in Indiana.

Since I'm atheist - I don't understand where these people come from. Even growing up Roman Catholic and going to 10 years of Catholic School - I never understood these bigotted, self-rightgeous, ignorant, hypocritical people. I have nothing wrong with people being religious - but these people go way too far. Anything they disapprove is a evil.

In Seymour IN a top 40 radio station was shut down because the "religious" community banded together. I have no idea how they managed to do it - but I guess it's the same way they get to dictate that there CAN NOT be any school events on Wednesday. These type of people scare me.

oh - and Tessar - I just read your letter. Fantasy is neither good nor evil anything is up to the person. When I used to play D&D my mother kept reading how teenagers were fulfilling their fantasies and actually killing people in real life or that they were all committing suicide. It said that D&D was becoming their life. But people can go overboard with anything. It's fake - so playing D&D isn't going to corrupt you or make you evil if you already aren't. It's not even going to warp your mind unless you actually believe it. Maybe that's why I can have a copy of the Satanic Bible and not care - because I don't believe in it.

webwizard333 · 08-05-2002, 11:22 PM

Tessar, did you ever get a reply to your e-mail?

07-15-2002, 12:33 PM	#42
Panther2112 Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbia, South Carolina Posts: 27	Article I read the article and found it somewhat amusing. I believe very strongly in the Creator and found nothing evil in the books or movie. I love rock and roll and do not do drugs, not that this fact has anything to do with TLOTRs. Some people need to get a grip. Is it a sin to read fantasy, to listen to a certain type of music. I don't think God would object (although I am no expert). Life can be tough sometimes, so whats wrong with a little escapism through books and movies. Nothing! Lets just love one another and not be so judgemental. __________________ No matter where you go, there you are.

07-15-2002, 08:47 PM	#44
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Reality check indeed. I wonder what he would say about me, a devoted christian, writing tolkien inspired songs? Wait a minute, I know... he'd say I should give up writing. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

07-16-2002, 06:02 PM	#47
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	Umm...blasphemy? __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

07-16-2002, 06:14 PM	#48
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	Interesting....I was just looking at the part about Harry Potter and it said that World Magazine liked and recomended it. That's a lie. They are very much against Harry Potter. __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

07-17-2002, 10:49 PM	#52
Khadrane Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth (I wish) Posts: 670	People like that author make me so mad! I have to go break something. __________________ Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE

07-16-2002, 07:50 PM	#49
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	Okay, I read it too. C.S. Lewis is a "Christian of sorts?" That's like saying Billy Graham is a Christian of sorts. Lewis is only the 20th century's premier apologist. And the guy obviously equate Catholics with non-Christians. The world is full of ignorant people. The best thing to do is ignore them.

07-20-2002, 11:03 AM	#53
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	I sent the dude an e-mail. Hi, My name is Anthony and I'm 13 years old. I felt that there were some things wrong in what you said so I would like to say my views on a few of them. There is white magic and black magic in Tolkien’s fantasies. I could be very wrong but I think the point is that there are good and bad magic users. Also did you know that all the "wizards" were actually spirits that were sent to middle earth in the form of old men? So they aren't people who have "studied magic". They have the powers of Eru (God) in them and they can use them for good or evil. Sauruman was the only "wizard" who turned to evil (other than Sauron [Satan]). My mother hates the idea of wizards and such. But she likes Gandalf. He isn't throwing fireballs everywhere. He rarely uses his "magic" and he RESPECTS it. He fears power. That is why he didn't take the ring. Tolkien’s books created the vast and spiritually dangerous fantasy role-playing games that are so influential today. I'm very sorry sir but that is like saying that Orville and his brother made kamikazes. Tolkien defined the genre of fantasy. EVERY ONE copies from him in one-way or another. The people who made D&D just copied some of the stuff. And no, I am not defending D&D. I hate D&D but I enjoy Role Playing. My mother told me that Role Playing was all right so long as there was no magic in it. Fantasy doesn't HAVE to have magic. Tolkien certainly did get his ideas from pagan religions, and the message promoted in his fantasy books is strictly pagan. I may need to reread it but please point to the verse that says "Worship Eru. All other God(s) are false". ROCK AND ROLLERS LOVE TOLKIEN Most people do you know. The song "Misty Mountain Hop" by the demonic hard rock group, Led Zeppelin, was inspired by Tolkien’s writings. What led you that conclusion? I have never heard the song and so can't speak of it myself. Also people can take a good thing and do bad stuff to it. Like people who steal the Eucharist for their "Black Mass" and desecrate the host. The world knows its own; and when the demonic world of fantasy role-playing and the morally filthy world of rock and roll love something, you can be sure it is not godly and it is not the truth. 1. Fantasy Role Playing isn't always demonic (although most of it is, unfortunately :\) 2. Not all rock and roll is filthy. Although if you speak only of the "Hard rock" parts I really couldn't say. I don't listen to it. Also may I mention about Tolkien being into ancient mythology. It would have to be pagan. Everything was back then. There were no “Catholics” for quite some time. I'm glad that you did write this though. It shows some interesting things that I never would have thought of. Anthony-the-overactive-chipmunk P.S. You have some nice LOTR pics up there. Really like the one of Sir Ian. He seems nice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Actualy what I ment was. Thanks for writing this, I was board and e-mailing you gave me something to do. You are clearly a fool and I never would have thought up such trash myself in a million years. heh, too bad it would have ben rude to add that There is white magic and black magic in Tolkien’s fantasies. Last edited by Tessar : 07-20-2002 at 12:44 PM.

07-20-2002, 05:07 PM	#54
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Tessar, I'm going to be nice and not nitpick your letter. Good show. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

07-20-2002, 06:15 PM	#55
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm sorry Tessar, but I don't think that letter is going to help. Next time you want to shoot yourself in the foot, at least get someone to help you aim a little higher. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

07-20-2002, 10:12 PM	#56
Handmaiden of Yavanna Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The far and fair West of California:) Posts: 101	I just read the artical and all I can say is that that is the worst bunch of crap I have heard in a long time!!! I mean seriously, I understand that everyone has a right to their own opinion but their argument was taking it too far!! LOTR is a wonderfull fantasy with even better morals displayed in it!! Good for you Tessar!! Thank you for sending that letter even though it won't change the dude's mind atleast it will let him know that their are some differing opinions in the world!!! OMG that makes me sooooo mad!! __________________ She wandered wayward for a time, from the gardens of the gods to climb the everlasting mountains free that look upon the outmost sea, and never wandered back but stayed softly singing from glade to glade.

07-20-2002, 11:23 PM	#57
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	I know it wont make a diff I was completly board.

08-05-2002, 02:22 PM	#58
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	er,i think melkor is more of a satan figure. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

08-05-2002, 11:04 PM	#59
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I didn't read the article - but does this mean I can trade in my Satanic Bible for LotR? Just kidding people. Although I do have a copy of it - but it's packed away in Indiana. Since I'm atheist - I don't understand where these people come from. Even growing up Roman Catholic and going to 10 years of Catholic School - I never understood these bigotted, self-rightgeous, ignorant, hypocritical people. I have nothing wrong with people being religious - but these people go way too far. Anything they disapprove is a evil. In Seymour IN a top 40 radio station was shut down because the "religious" community banded together. I have no idea how they managed to do it - but I guess it's the same way they get to dictate that there CAN NOT be any school events on Wednesday. These type of people scare me. oh - and Tessar - I just read your letter. Fantasy is neither good nor evil anything is up to the person. When I used to play D&D my mother kept reading how teenagers were fulfilling their fantasies and actually killing people in real life or that they were all committing suicide. It said that D&D was becoming their life. But people can go overboard with anything. It's fake - so playing D&D isn't going to corrupt you or make you evil if you already aren't. It's not even going to warp your mind unless you actually believe it. Maybe that's why I can have a copy of the Satanic Bible and not care - because I don't believe in it. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-05-2002 at 11:18 PM.

08-05-2002, 11:22 PM	#60
webwizard333 Elf Lord Join Date: May 2001 Location: myob Posts: 587	Tessar, did you ever get a reply to your e-mail? __________________ Boo!

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