Nobel Peace Prize to President Obama

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

In other words, the Peace Prize is a strong political signal that in part is intended to lock Obama to his promises of making a better world. Seen from this perspective, I think awarding Obama despite his few accomplishments is a good idea after all.

So the most prestigious prize in the world is simply a pat on the back and a reminder to "stay the progressive course" for Obama? Or to the rest of the american body politic that Obama's way is the correct way as if that will have an effect on any of them?

Its noble, I suppose, to use such a medium as political backing but the point I have been trying to make is that you RISK the very OPPOSITE by doing so because Obama's political opponents WILL use this now against him on the very issues that the Peace Prize was supposed to provide political expediency on. This isnt the same as awarding it to a human rights fighter under persecution in their own country where THAT kind of statement can sharpen world focus on a bad situation and provide real pressure on those who are acting with despicable evil against them and their own people. And even THEN it doesnt often make a difference (see An Sang Su Chi).

I mean I guess we can sit back and see how this helps going forward but I have my doubts congress will bow down now and let him load up various legislations exactly they way he wants to because he got an award from Oslo.

The real worry is that it will add another excuse to the Glen Becks to rally the crazies enough to protest and tea bag all the more fervently and push more extremists and nitwits to the polls in 2010 resulting in a surge for the republicans (and the uncooperative extremist type) as they take back some seats in congress thus weakening the presidential office rather then empowering him.

I guess I need someone to show me how this helps rather than hurts Obama. And if the answer is it doesnt matter if it hurts then I have to think that something has gotten out of wack somehow...

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Classy.

Everyone please keep this thread respectful. I am referring to several people in this case on both sides of the argument.

Sometimes you have to lay it on thick

But I will take back the last two words. But let it be said that they weren't directed at anyone in Entmoot. More so a general state-of-mind that I think is shared by many people, especially in the US, after the election.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

So the most prestigious prize in the world is simply a pat on the back and a reminder to "stay the progressive course" for Obama? Or to the rest of the american body politic that Obama's way is the correct way as if that will have an effect on any of them?

To put it simply, yes

Listen, whether or not you think Obama should receive the Peace Prize, I'd say this is the main reason he's being rewarded in the first place. It gets tiresome to hear people claim he's getting the award for his few tangible achievements.

I might have come across as some big supporter of the Nobel Committee's decision but I - just as the vast majority (including most Europeans) - am sceptical. I think the Peace Prize is displayed from its best side when it is awarded to people whose contributions to peace can be backed up by history. Otherwise there is a risk that the prize goes to someone who ultimately turns out to be quite unworthy. For instance, I think letting Yassir Arafat have a piece of the Peace prize was a big mistake.

That said, I still don't think it was outright wrong to decide on Obama this year. From the point of view I posted earlier, it might even have been a great decision.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

To put it simply, yes

Listen, whether or not you think Obama should receive the Peace Prize, I'd say this is the main reason he's being rewarded in the first place. It gets tiresome to hear people claim he's getting the award for his few tangible achievements.

I might have come across as some big supporter of the Nobel Committee's decision but I - just as the vast majority (including most Europeans) - am sceptical.

I think Jonathan says it well. While the Peace Prize in more instances than not has been awarded due to long-time achievements (this is the most ready available way of estimating a person's or an organization's work), this time the Nobel Peace Prize Institute chose a more unorthodox approach and gave it to a man, whom yes we can all agree has only been around for a very short time, nonetheless has created some remarkable waves of energy throughout the world. The prize of 2009 is very idealistic, but then again is the whole point of the award! It's idealism poured into substance.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I think the Peace Prize is displayed from its best side when it is awarded to people whose contributions to peace can be backed up by history. Otherwise there is a risk that the prize goes to someone who ultimately turns out to be quite unworthy. For instance, I think letting Yassir Arafat have a piece of the Peace prize was a big mistake.

And sometimes one of the recipients, like Yassir Arafat when he, Rabin and Perez received the reward, are completely unworthy. This we say in retrospect. Everyone understood that both sides had several thousand tons of blood on their hands in 1993, but in that year, before everything collapsed on itself and Rabin was assassinated, there was in fact hope for a reconciliation between Palestine and Israel. The award brought massive attention to the conflict, and if you read news articles from that time there was careful hope that something extraordinary could happen. It didn't, and understandbly, in retrospect, it seems outrageous to hand a Peace Award to Yassir Arafat, who was a deceitful thug.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

That said, I still don't think it was outright wrong to decide on Obama this year. From the point of view I posted earlier, it might even have been a great decision.

I think not even the staunches Obama supporter would believe that the road ahead is easy. Obama may fail on many things. He could turn out to become a mediocre President just because the sheer vastness of the agenda that he has set his administration to tackle collapses on itself. But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. I believe he deserves it just as McCain would deserve the beneift of the doubt if the man decided to make an all-frontal assault on today's problems.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

Alcuin, very perceptive cartoon link. Very accurate rendition.

Coffeehouse, I note that you are very inclusive of those who disagree with you today. Have you any Rolaids about to aid that nasty indigestion? Perhaps an O-laid or some such?

Meanwhile, the Nobel Prize was originally funded from the vast profits accumulated by the inventor of___________________________?

For peace's sake!

Exactly- Nobel saw the terrible things his invention had resulted in and wanted to make amends:

Wiki_

The erroneous publication in 1888 of a premature obituary of Nobel by a French newspaper, condemning him for his invention of dynamite, is said to have brought about his decision to leave a better legacy after his death.[2] The obituary stated Le marchand de la mort est mort ("The merchant of death is dead") and went on to say, "Dr. Alfred Nobel, who became rich by finding ways to kill more people faster than ever before, died yesterday."[3] On 27 November 1895, at the Swedish-Norwegian Club in Paris, Nobel signed his last will and testament and set aside the bulk of his estate to establish the Nobel Prizes, to be awarded annually without distinction of nationality. He died of a stroke on 10 December 1896 at Sanremo, Italy. He left 31 million Swedish kronor (equivalent to about 1.8 billion kronor or 250 million US dollars in 2008) to fund the prizes.[citation needed]

The first three of these prizes are awarded for eminence in physical science, in chemistry and in medical science or physiology; the fourth is for literary work "in an ideal direction" and the fifth prize is to be given to the person or society that renders the greatest service to the cause of international fraternity, in the suppression or reduction of standing armies, or in the establishment or furtherance of peace congresses. There is no prize awarded for mathematics.[4]

[GrayMouser]

And, as to the question of what had Obama done for world peace by the time he was nominated in January...

Beaten John McCain.

[The Gaffer]

Yup, too early. However, anything that gets the rightwingers whining and moaning and frothing at their mouths, as this seems to, gets my support.

Wasn't the day Kissinger got it also the day that "satire died"? I would say it's a far less controversial award than that one.

[inked]

For what it's worth ( and two of the 5 judges were not commenting or reachable for comment) here's the defence:

http://charter.net/news/read.php?ps=...ARSDCCLM_UNEWS


Which validates the above cartoon, IMHO.

[inked]

TIME: http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...930331,00.html

[Insidious Rex]

Just curious... is everyone feeling just as gung ho about the whole Peace prize thing post 30,000 troops deployment orders?

[Valandil]

I am not a big fan of President Obama - but my feelings about the Peace Prize had more to do with the prematurity of it.

I do feel like President Obama is doing the right thing by increasing our troop presence in Afghanistan.

Very timely of you to bring this back up. I wondered if someone would.

[Jonathan]

Curiously, Obama himself brought up both the prematurity and troop deployments in his acceptance speech.

Prior to the speech, the chairman of the Nobel Committee defended its decision to award Obama quite convincingly I think.

[Coffeehouse]

I think fmr. PM Jagland's speech and Obama's complemented each other quite well and layed out exactly the reason why it was the right moment to give it to him.

Jagland stressed that the Peace Prize's function isn't to act as some sort of stamp of approval of successful peace negotiations or peace endevours but as an award that encourages and acknowledges efforts towards peace and a more just world. They've given the Award in times when much was still to be accomplished, like when Martin Luther King Jr. received it, and the movement was still far from its goal.

The prize promotes vision and an outreached hand as much as anything else. And I think Obama showed exactly why he deserved it by the speech he held and the policies that he highlighted that he has initiated since he became President.

The US is lucky to have such a President in such times as now, deservedly or not...

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Prior to the speech, the chairman of the Nobel Committee defended its decision to award Obama quite convincingly I think.

In a speech at the dinner in his honor in the evening, Obama said that the chairman's speech almost convinced him that he deserved the Prize

[Insidious Rex]

Well clearly he is still down playing it then. Seems like he was there barely long enough to finish his speech. I hear the Norwegians are pretty ticked that he didnt get involved in all the post award hoopla that they schedule. Even blew off the King for lunch! Will our resident Norwegians please explain to the populace there that this was done solely for the consumption of the american public? He knows there can be NO appearance of celebration for this award or the right will jump all over it.

[inked]

Well, when you have been given a prize for nothing, why exactly should you have to stick around with the schtumphs who gave it to you? Clearly they do not deserve time any more than you did the prize.

Concerns about the right back home had nothing to do with it. The problem is ego. The awardee's. Not to mention the egos of the bestowers who think they deserve time with the much-touted.

Your mileage may differ, but I think they got what they gave.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Well clearly he is still down playing it then. Seems like he was there barely long enough to finish his speech. I hear the Norwegians are pretty ticked that he didnt get involved in all the post award hoopla that they schedule. Even blew off the King for lunch! Will our resident Norwegians please explain to the populace there that this was done solely for the consumption of the american public? He knows there can be NO appearance of celebration for this award or the right will jump all over it.

Naw, most Norwegians understand why he did not spend the usual 3 days that most Nobel Peace Prize winners take. The man's the President of a country, he does not have the leisure to do this. Again the media loves to inflate a non-story...

He did visit the King and Queen at the Palace and he ate dinner with them at the Grand Hotel in Oslo, also taking the time to waive to the torch-procession that always takes place outside the Parlament building in honour of the Nobel Laureate.

From the dinner...FM Prime Minister Torbjørn Jagland, The Obamas, His Highnes the King, Her Highness the Queen, the Crown Prince and Crown Princess

Norway was very pleased to have Obama and company, although we never had such a security arrangement in Oslo in our entiry history hehe.. Not even Rabin and Arafat were awarded on that scale though it was pretty close.

I watched a good deal of the coverage and he seemed to go through a sort of evolution of understanding of why he was given the award. I think Obama has left Oslo a lot more confident in why he was recommended for the politics and doctrine that he is undertaking. Think it helped for him to speak for a length, to be able to spell out a reason for how he decides on the issues of war and peace, and how his Afghanistan commitment coincides with his other responsbilities.

Last but not least, precisely the type of discussion around international security that the Nobel Peace Prize is meant to stimulate has just become stimulated. Controversy stirs, but also awakes and he'll come out of it better off I believe. Only time will tell.

[Insidious Rex]

Glad to hear he got some time in with the locals.

Oh on a related note did you hear that they just awarded Tiger Woods the Nobel Prize for monogamy? Its in anticipation of the great strides he will take toward that endeavor now.

Sorry could not resist that one. For the record, Ive raised a toast for the Pres in honor of his official reception of the award. We can only hope it will prove a most positive historic moment for him and the world many years from now..

[inked]

Good one, IR.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...rpc=22&sp=true - What percentage did the US delegation contribute?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

CH: What is with Her Majesty's random pointing just as the camera snaps? Don't you people train them better than that?