Origins, and Implications of Origins

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Spock

thars a hole heap of thunkin goin on 'bout that right now

No, no, no! Please do NOT merge this with the other threads! It's specifically about how what a person thinks their origin is affects their daily choices and what and how they think about things. It's NOT an evidence of origins thread.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Anyone that wants to discuss actual evidence, please do it on the other threads.

you heard it... no facts here, just opinions

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Anyone that wants to discuss actual evidence, please do it on the other threads.

THANK you, Rian; I wish I were as able to say what's in MY mind, but this is what I wanted to say as well. Now maybe i'll finally be able to use a discussion thread, FINally. But I can't start right now; too busy to start thinking gotta go gotta go...

[rohirrim TR]

wht don't we think about those really corny sci-fi movie plots that conclude that the flapping of a butterflys wings causes a hurricane a hundred miles away, just think about it for a minute...


thats long enough don't want to thing about it too long just long enough to be awestruck by my depth

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I KNOW! Why does everything even remotely philosophical around here have to end up being a battle between the Christian thinkers only? Can't we have a secular discussion thread, is that even possible?

Are the non-Christian thinkers somehow being stopped from posting on philosophical threads?

Perhaps the "Christian thinkers" are just more willing to think about things and discuss them.

I do NOT understand this objection.

Seriously, I don't understand what you mean - brownie and IRex are often on these discussion threads and they aren't Christians

If you mean that philosophical-type threads often have a large amount of posts on them by Christians, then I think you need to think about why or if that is a valid complaint A huge reason for that is that I enjoy these types of discussions, and I, um, er, have a lot of posts, and I'm a Christian, and I like to make detailed and thoughtful (read: long ) posts in response to good questions and thoughts I see from others. So my presence alone on these threads is going to put a lot of "Christian" posts in the thread.

I could roll over and quietly submit to being marginalized and censored because of my beliefs, and not say what I truly think, but I don't think that's right. Do you? And I would never want anyone else to not feel free to say what they truly think, too (as long as it's polite and considerate).

If you truly want a secular discussion, then go ahead and start a thread and specify that - that seems like the best solution, doesn't it? There have been these types of complaints before. If someone started a thread and said they didn't want any posts from people of a "religious" background, then I would certainly honor that and stay out of the thread. But IMO, some of the most lively and thought-provoking threads here have been open to people of EVERY type of belief - atheism and agnosticism included - and I've learned a tremendous amount from these threads.

[Lotesse]

Are you tryna fight with me, Rian? 'Cause it won't work today, I'm WAY too happy. All I was saying is that it would be refreshing for a change to have even ONE thread in Entmoot that's not Christian based/biased/argued. Just people's THOUGHTS, and feelings, not constant passionate attempts to argue a religious point. That's all I'm saying, Rian, I'm not tryna dog Christianity.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Ummm... I. Rex, are you debating the God versus evolution thing here, or am I crazy? O.K., don't answer the second part - I may be a little crazy, but really - think about it, you sound as if perhaps what you're saying belongs in like 2 or 3 other threads bewsides this one. Not tryna rain on your verbal parade, or anything; I'm just sayin'...

No im just responding to what littleadanel said which needed responding to. And everyone knew this thread would immediatly go into the evolution discussion because it rests on that foundation. We were talking about origins and the thread is about origins. In our case we were talking about the origins of the human species. Now if thats something taht cant be discussed here then Im thinking we are cutting things way way too fine in this thread. Origins are origins.

littleadanel and rohirrim Id be happy to address those questions you had in one of the 30 other threads that pretend to not be quite about evolution and creationism. Just let me know where to go...

[Rían]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

you heard it... no facts here, just opinions

*sigh*

Yes, I see your smilie, but I"m tired of being marginalized because of MY beliefs, when other people aren't because of THEIR beliefs.

This thread is about deductions that drive our behavior. And it is NOT an "opinion" to evaluate whether or not a deduction is valid or invalid! And an atheist/agnostic person does NOT, by default, have more factual basis for their behavior choices than a religious person does - each person's BELIEFS, and the deductions they make from them, should be able to be subject to logical analysis, IMO. LOGICAL analysis, as in, given this premise, is this a valid deduction?

Maybe people aren't familiar with that concept, I don't know. Personally, I think it's interesting. I think a lot of things are interesting. Sorry, maybe I post too much. I just like to think and discuss things with people I like.

"pity, party of 1"

[Insidious Rex]

Whats the difference between "thoughts and feelings" and christian motivated "thoughts and feelings"?

[Lotesse]

I thought this thread was going to be to talk about the origins of our souls, of the essence of what it means to be a human being, not our actual physical origins. Well, colour me stupid, guess I was wrong. You guys have fun.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Are you tryna fight with me, Rian? 'Cause it won't work today, I'm WAY too happy. All I was saying is that it would be refreshing for a change to have even ONE thread in Entmoot that's not Christian based/biased/argued. Just people's THOUGHTS, and feelings, not constant passionate attempts to argue a religious point. That's all I'm saying, Rian, I'm not tryna dog Christianity.

No, I'm not trying to fight with you, Lotesse

I'm glad you're happy

Please, please start a thead on a subject you like, and if you do NOT want it to be "Christian based/biased/argued", then please specify that in the opening post and I'll be glad - GLAD - to stay out of it in order to respect your wishes

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

No im just responding to what littleadanel said which needed responding to. And everyone knew this thread would immediatly go into the evolution discussion because it rests on that foundation. We were talking about origins and the thread is about origins. In our case we were talking about the origins of the human species. Now if thats something taht cant be discussed here then Im thinking we are cutting things way way too fine in this thread. Origins are origins.

You still seem to be misunderstanding me - sorry I can't be more clear.

I don't give a RIP about the validity of what a person thinks about their origin in this thread. I don't care if it's supported by 10 facts or 10,000 facts - or no facts!

On this thread, I want to think about and discuss this: given the premise of a particular belief about your origin, what deductions do you draw from it that affect your daily behavior and choices? And how valid (in terms of logical analysis) are those deductions?

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

No, I'm not trying to fight with you, Lotesse

I'm glad you're happy

Please, please start a thead on a subject you like, and if you do NOT want it to be "Christian based/biased/argued", then please specify that in the opening post and I'll be glad - GLAD - to stay out of it in order to respect your wishes

No man, you got it all wrong! That's not what - oh f**k it, I'm obviously incapable of not becoming heinously misunderstood - I KNEW I shouldn't have tried to talk in this forum. I'm not some strong-arming nazi anti-Christian, I mean look - I'm even capitalising the word "Christian," out of respect for all you Christian mooters. And usually I don't cap either christian OR god. But - whadda ya goona do. Guess this thread's not gonna be my cup of tea, after all.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

It's about implications, logical deductions, etc. that can be drawn from what a person believes his/her origins are and that affect our every day choices, esp. in what is usually called moral behavior. Implications/deductions that are valid, invalid, well-supported, and otherwise, and why we think they are valid, invalid, well-supported, and otherwise

Thats what I was hoping this thread would be, but some people (and I'm talking on both sides of the 'debate'[/i] are too damm closed-minded to even consider such questions without having to leadthe debate into the realm of this evolution vs creation BS. Why can't people just take the questions presented, and post their personal thoughts about them no matter what their religious dogma is. It can be done.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

This thread is about deductions that drive our behavior. And it is NOT an "opinion" to evaluate whether or not a deduction is valid or invalid! And an atheist/agnostic person does NOT, by default, have more factual basis for their behavior choices than a religious person does - each person's BELIEFS, and the deductions they make from them, should be able to be subject to logical analysis, IMO. LOGICAL analysis, as in, given this premise, is this a valid deduction?

Maybe people aren't familiar with that concept, I don't know. Personally, I think it's interesting. I think a lot of things are interesting. Sorry, maybe I post too much. I just like to think and discuss things with people I like.

I hear what you're saying Rian, but in my usually cynical opinion, I don't think many folk here can grasp such concepts, so i write off the discussions as another Entmoot EV/CR battle.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

...I'm even capitalising the word "Christian," out of respect for all you Christian mooters.

thank you - I appreciate your kind thought - that was a sweet gesture

And I didn't mean that about starting a thread on your own in a mean way - I really mean that if you do not want a Christian POV on your thread, then please note that in your opening post, and I'll stay out of your thread with no hard feelings.

I"m just a passionate person, with a lot of thoughts, and I guess my posts overwhelm threads sometimes

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

You still seem to be misunderstanding me - sorry I can't be more clear.

I don't give a RIP about the validity of what a person thinks about their origin in this thread. I don't care if it's supported by 10 facts or 10,000 facts - or no facts!

On this thread, I want to think about and discuss this: given the premise of a particular belief about your origin, what deductions do you draw from it that affect your daily behavior and choices? And how valid (in terms of logical analysis) are those deductions?

Well then thats basically meaningless to me because my thoughts about human origins dont connect to my "daily behavior and choices". At least not that Im aware of. So then is this just about religious concepts of origins then? or philosophical concepts? Because if your perspective is scientific you dont really have anything to say.

By the way I would most certainly erase every single thing you wrote in taht first post and replace it with that last paragraph up there so people get what you want to discuss here because that first post was completely ambiguous. And your explanation to my question on what it was about didnt help me any either.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Thats what I was hoping this thread would be, but some people (and I'm talking on both sides of the 'debate'[/i] are too damm closed-minded to even consider such questions without having to leadthe debate into the realm of this evolution vs creation BS.

Well, given that evolution and creation are included in the set of possible origin beliefs, we can't totally keep them out of the thread, but what I DO want to keep out is evidence discussions.

As I said, I don't give a RIP about how valid your premise is; I'm interested in the logical deductions that can be made from the premise.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

By the way I would most certainly erase every single thing you wrote in taht first post and replace it with that last paragraph up there so people get what you want to discuss here because that first post was completely ambiguous. And your explanation to my question on what it was about didnt help me any either.

Oh, Rexy *sigh*

I'm so sorry we just seem to misunderstand each other so much! I really DO try VERY hard to be clear!

That's a good suggestion to fix up the first post - I'll go do that now.

[Lotesse]

O.K., Rian, I know you'd never try and hurt anyone's feelings, you are way too sweet for that. I just didn't want to let myself get sucked into one of these threads where everyone overwhelmingly starts going nuts about "God created the world/no, Darwin was right and here's the proof" kind of thing. I HATE those stupid threads. I would have loved to just TALK to other people about their thoughts and feelings about where our hearts and souls came from, and the whole "Why are we here" thing, without demanding logical deduction, and proofsheets, and proffessional data from each other. Just open, casual TALKING, not over-the-top raging debates. Is this even possible, you guys? Is it? To quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along?"

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Yes, I see your smilie, but I"m tired of being marginalized because of MY beliefs, when other people aren't because of THEIR beliefs.

i think the "marginalization" is more perceived than real

when you say stuff like... "Perhaps the "Christian thinkers" are just more willing to think about things and discuss them."

i just try to let it pass and continue with my discussion

it's not US vs. THEM ... we are all individuals with different perceptions and interpretations... your "christianity" is quite different than others who are christian and post here... the same is true of myself and other agnostics... not to mention those that float in the middle

if there is anything to "censor" (and this should be self-censorship, as opposed to mod-censorship) ... it should be the tendency we all have to categorize people by their beliefs as opposed to remembering that each and every individual is just that ... individual ... and it's a good thing