01-28-2005, 06:53 PM | #41 | |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
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01-28-2005, 06:53 PM | #42 |
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I'll stay out of this one then
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01-28-2005, 11:01 PM | #43 | |
Elven Warrior
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I realize Feanor wasn't exactly a nice guy, but he was mainly corrupted by Morgoth, he should be pitied, not blamed. He's sorta like Denethor getting corrupted by Sauron but I don't hear anyone going "Oh its Denethors fault that Gondor was getting attacked"
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Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland |
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01-28-2005, 11:12 PM | #44 | |||
avocatus diaboli
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A nonspammy response! Yay!
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01-29-2005, 12:04 AM | #45 |
Elven Warrior
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Ultimately, though, it was Morgoth who deviated from the Music. So... though Feanor can be blamed for a large portion of the problems, the ultimate bulk of the problems come from Morgoth.
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"...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum. |
01-29-2005, 03:50 AM | #46 |
Word Santa Claus
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In addition, hate to be a bother, but perhaps Tolkien WOULD have created the Two Trees without the future Silmarils - art for art's sake, beauty for beauty's sake, and all that jazz. The Trees are still a powerful metaphor.
Still very compelling antiFeänorian rhetoric though.
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01-29-2005, 07:54 AM | #47 | |
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Now a little bit more seriously: I think you'll agree with me that Saruman was evil, won't you? Well, I think that Saruman and Fëanor are much alike in the following respects: -They were both deluded, Morgoth played on Fëanor's hubris and Sauron on Saruman's lust for power. -Both had the chance for redemption (Fëanor could have accepted to give the Silmarils to Yavanna and Saruman could have come down from Orthanc) and they spurned it. Would you say then that you pity Saruman? No, I don't think so! Yes, Fëanor was misguided by Morgoth, but shouldn't he have known better? I mean, he lived with the GODS of ME for pity's sake! Plus, Morgoth inflamed Fëanor's pride, but Fëanors more than unhelthy obsession with the Silmarils (some people would call that "fetishism") was his own doing: that guy (or, more accurately, "elf") loved the work of his hands too much |
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01-29-2005, 12:27 PM | #48 | |||
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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01-29-2005, 12:54 PM | #49 | |
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Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland |
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01-29-2005, 12:57 PM | #50 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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I don't rellay know if I think Feanor is to blame so much. Of course, he did an awful lot of bad stuff, but still. Not for everything, but for a good bit.
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01-29-2005, 12:59 PM | #51 | |
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And then the problems really started. I don't think Beren meant that he should have known enough to not trust Morgoth, though. It seems to me that having living with and learned from Gods he should know enough not to do things like rebellion and kinslaying and treason and... You get the point, I think.
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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01-29-2005, 01:21 PM | #52 | |
Fëanorophobic
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El, I wouldn't blame Melkor's deviation from the Music on Fëanor, that would be pushing it! However, what you can blame on him is the long-debated "the Valar shirking their duty" thing. Look how he could inflame a host of Noldor and coax even the sons of Finarfin to come along. If only he used this eloquence to rouse the Valar into action...ME would've been rid of Morgoth pretty early and then Elves could have returned to live in ME with no grudges on the Valar's part whatsoever. So in conclusion everyone, whenever you feel sad for Turin, Luthien or anyone else...you know what to do: Blame Fëanor |
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01-29-2005, 01:52 PM | #53 | |||
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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01-29-2005, 01:57 PM | #54 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Yes, maybe it is I have never thought properly about it. think I have to.
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01-29-2005, 04:35 PM | #55 |
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Times have changed,
Those men are getting worse They won't obey their elders. They just fight and reproduce! Should we blame the Valar, or blame poor uprbinging, or should we blame the images on the palintiri? No! Blame Feanor! Blame Feanor! With his sons so cold and cruel, And that stupid set of jewels! Blame Feanor! Blame Feanor! We don't care if he's dead, put the blame on his head! Don't blame me, for Sauron and the Rings, it's those bloody Noldor and their shiny things! And those humans once, looked up to us, but now they're self-important with their petty little kings! Well, Blame Feanor! It seems that everything's gone wrong since Feanor came along Blame Feanor! Blame Feanor! He's not even a real elf anyway. We could have hung around in Valinor, it's true! Instead we're the main course at an orcish Barecue! Should we blame old Morgoth? Should we blame the orcs, or the soldiers who can't seem to do a thing to win this war? Heck no! Blame Feanor! Blame Feanor! With his three fancy shiny jewels and his seven little fools. Blame Feanor! Shame on Feanor! No more magical toys! No more unwinnable wars! No Matter what you say, we'll hate him anyway! We must blame him and cause a fuss Before somebody thinks of blaming us! :eyeshift:
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 01-29-2005 at 04:39 PM. |
01-29-2005, 04:51 PM | #56 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Your a genius, Wayfarer! I have thought about that song since this thread was created, but that is truly great!
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01-29-2005, 05:05 PM | #57 |
avocatus diaboli
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Heh. That's pretty good, Wayfarer.
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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01-29-2005, 06:55 PM | #58 |
Word Santa Claus
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Brilliant song adaptation, Wayfarer.
On the topic of retroactive blame... I wonder if you could say that when Morgoth made his music go wrong, he had an idea in his mind of the havoc he would cause... havoc, embodied by Feänor... and therefore Feänor's future existence (or at least the existence of someone acting like Feänor) inspired the musical alterations.
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01-29-2005, 07:03 PM | #59 |
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maybe the concept of feanor was melkor's deviant music?
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01-29-2005, 07:10 PM | #60 |
Word Santa Claus
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Oooh, interesting idea
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