Fahrenheit 9/11 Review Thread

[Hemel]

Ragnarok
Yes, isn't it ironic how people whine and complain that no one should believe what Moore says because its all false information.

Indeed. May I gently suggest here that if such a stick is used to beat MM then that same stick could also be used to beat our leaders? Because it seems to me, from much of what I have read and seen recently, that there are, to say the least, some doubts over the veracity of the information that was supplied to justify the war in Iraq, and some concerns over the way the information was presented for the public.

Perhaps it is that MM's constructions are rather easier to spot and to critique that we hear so much about it. Maybe too because he is, as it were, an outsider to government and therefore to the most powerfully authorised way of thinking. I suggest there could also be an element of shock - we'd all like to think, I believe, that those in power are acting in our interests, and to understand that just maybe sometimes they aren't can be difficult to accept.

Beor:
And I hope you get lots of what I have been deprived of too

Thanks! I intend to ...

[The Gaffer]

They're not easier to spot, they just have millions more spotters and cheerleaders than the opposing view.

Bush and Blair said we'd find WMDs and there weren't any, said that Saddam had links to Al Qaida and he didn't, claimed they'd reduce terrorism and it increased. Those are some pretty stark facts right there and it doesn't take a PhD in international relations to spot them.

However, when you have legions of highly paid spin doctors and compliant media moguls to push these minor items off the agenda, you can then relax and spend your time picking holes in the opposition.

[Starr Polish]

I saw this movie yesterday with my fairly liberal friend. I call myself "super-moderate" and am completely undecided about who I'm voting for. I hate politics in general and see them as a battle of power among the rich and that's about all.

I believe there was definitely some truth to the movie, as well as clever editing, taking things out of context, and twisted facts, as you'll find in ANYTHING of a political nature. It's only as high profile as it is because of the reputation of the director/the fact that it's a fairly extremist point of view (extremist meaning far left, not "crazy").

I think that Moore took some cheap shots at the president that were undeserved. I also think that some of the nastier things he said about Bush were justified.

It didn't sway me either way, since I'm still very much undecided. It did, however, inspire me to pay more attention to the news (and several sources of it, so I can get all sides of the biases) and become more politically involved/informed.

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by Starr Polish

It did, however, inspire me to pay more attention to the news (and several sources of it, so I can get all sides of the biases) and become more politically involved/informed.

That's good. That's one of the reasons Mr. Moore made the film, to get people informed and involved in politics.

[Janny]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

That's good. That's one of the reasons Mr. Moore made the film, to get people informed and involved in politics.

Ah... to think how JD would respond to 'informed'.

[Pirate]

I saw the movie finally and was hystericly crying during Christmas in Iraq and when the mother was reading the letter from her son. I don't see how you'd think that the movie was disrespecting the troups becuase after I left the theater I had never had more respect for them. The movie didn't make them seem like clowns, it made them seem like boys and that's what they are. They are young boys dying for (in my oppinion) nothing but money.

[The Gaffer]

I finally saw it too.

While I'm definitely in the choir being preached to here, it was interesting and not only gave some new insights but was a good film in its own right. I felt it was slightly too long, but otherwise was well paced, clear, and not too preachy. Some of the timing on the edits was great.

I has forgotten that they were all going "Saddam has no weapons and no capability for getting them" in the Summer of 2001. Ha! This is perhaps its most valuable feature: as a record, in case we forget. Because we will; we already are forgetting.

Clearly, Moore should make no apology for making a partisan film. All of the other media representations we have had have been propaganda manipulated by our various governments, so this is just one small counterweight. We were duped into believing that Saddam was a threat so we have a right, in fact we have a responsibility, to work out why and how.

It's very difficult to accept the premise of Moore's film, which is that an American president started a war with the specific purpose of enriching his elite band of supporters and securing access to another country's resources. That is indeed a very difficult premise to accept, because it means WE'RE THE BAD GUYS.

In that sense, Moore did a very skillful job of portraying the front-line troops as humans who are as much caught up in the situation as the Iraqis. Wasn't it priceless when he was trying to get the Congressmen to sign up their kids for active duty?

[Millane]

yeah it has finally come out here, by the time we get most movies at the cinema the UK and US has them out on dvd (still remember 28 Days Later

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Wasn't it priceless when he was trying to get the Congressmen to sign up their kids for active duty?

hahahaha yeah that was great, word must have gotten round too, the first couple talked but everyone else ignored him.
Do military 'headhunters' really go around trying to nab kids into service like the movie portrayed??
On the movie: An insightful and intellient movie. Ingenius mix of horror and humor.

[Nerdanel]

i saw it today. it was an impressing movie. i have never, ever cried watching a movie before, but today the tears just came. i don't know..

first i laughed a lot. some things some people said were just so typical, so expected and so stupid.
later on the movie just made me more sure about what we people are. i hate humanity. i really do.

i could discuss this movie for hours, if i'd have it here with me, to watch a bit of it and then discuss it. it was rather overwhelming.

the friend i was with, though she knows that she shouldn't believe everything she saw, told me that she learnt a lot that she hadn't had any idea of. really makes us more aware of the news!

i think we all needed this movie. it might be exaggerated, but it gives a good differing pov than the usual one.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nerdanel

i saw it today. it was an impressing movie. i have never, ever cried watching a movie before, but today the tears just came. i don't know..

first i laughed a lot. some things some people said were just so typical, so expected and so stupid.
later on the movie just made me more sure about what we people are. i hate humanity. i really do.

i could discuss this movie for hours, if i'd have it here with me, to watch a bit of it and then discuss it. it was rather overwhelming.

the friend i was with, though she knows that she shouldn't believe everything she saw, told me that she learnt a lot that she hadn't had any idea of. really makes us more aware of the news!

i think we all needed this movie. it might be exaggerated, but it gives a good differing pov than the usual one.

Maybe you should do some research on how much of the stuff is actually true before just saying - some of it is merely exagerated. I personally don't hate humanity - I hate the terrorists though who are chopping off people's heads - but hey - the movie doesn't show that - does it?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Millane

hahahaha yeah that was great, word must have gotten round too, the first couple talked but everyone else ignored him.

Too bad the rest of the congressman's quote was edited out - which indicated that his nephews were in the military but that he would present what Michael Moore had to the Congress. After the Congressman complained about how his statement was edited - Michael Moore was forced to admit that was the case - but that he is only trying to support one view in the movie.

I'm very glad that this movie is in the entertainment forum - because this movie is a work of fiction and twisted facts.

[Nerdanel]

who defines what a terrorist is? who has the right to do that?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nerdanel

who defines what a terrorist is? who has the right to do that?

That is the MOST stupidest comment I have heard yet. That is like asking who has the right to declare that nazism is wrong. Maybe you haven't noticed the MANY children who were PURPOSELY attacked in Beslan Russia, or the car bomb attack that PURPOSELY killed over 35 children in Iraq. or what about the PURPOSEFUL attacks againt israeli citizens who are just eating in a pizzeria or getting on a bus to go to school. Or what about the attacks which PUROPOSELLY killed 3,000 people on 9/11.

[Nerdanel]

yeah, i think that's terrorism. but who's said i'm right? or you? and people might think that people we don't consider terrorists are just that.

oh well, i think i got a bit out of topic. i recommend people to see the movie and make their own judgements.

[Millane]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

That is the MOST stupidest comment I have heard yet. That is like asking who has the right to declare that nazism is wrong. Maybe you haven't noticed the MANY children who were PURPOSELY attacked in Beslan Russia, or the car bomb attack that PURPOSELY killed over 35 children in Iraq. or what about the PURPOSEFUL attacks againt israeli citizens who are just eating in a pizzeria or getting on a bus to go to school. Or what about the attacks which PUROPOSELLY killed 3,000 people on 9/11.

i wouldnt take that **** nerdanel. JD if you think that is the most stupid comment (it was a question but anyway) you've heard i think thats no one else's fault but your own. its an intelligent question that should be asked a lot more.
i would also say that your answer is the stupidest thing ive ever heard if youd attempted to answer the question

ok JD first off can you tell me if you think that the US were terrorists in say the Vietnam War or WWII? and why/why not?

[Cirdan]

Originally Posted by Nerdanel

oh well, i think i got a bit out of topic. i recommend people to see the movie and make their own judgements.

I'm renting it next week on DVD. Does the movie actually put a positive spin on terrorism or is it just critical of the Bush presidency?

Can't be as twisted as those swift boat vets for truth. What could be more unpatriotic than challenging a combat veteran's service. How would the service men and women feel if they came back and people questioned whether the service they gave was worthy?

[Cirdan]

Originally Posted by Millane

i wouldnt take that **** nerdanel. JD if you think that is the most stupid comment...

You mean it wasn't the "MOST stupidest"[sic]? lol

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Millane

i wouldnt take that **** nerdanel. JD if you think that is the most stupid comment (it was a question but anyway) you've heard i think thats no one else's fault but your own. its an intelligent question that should be asked a lot more.
i would also say that your answer is the stupidest thing ive ever heard if youd attempted to answer the question

You would think it's an intelligent question. She was making a statement in the form of a question, or do you not understand that concept? Okay then - let's hear it for the KKK then. Let's hear it for Hamas. Let's hear it for the SS. I'm sure it would WRONG for us to label them.

I guess we'll just call the terrorist, really nice guys who are just misunderstood and were abused as children and never had any friends.

ok JD first off can you tell me if you think that the US were terrorists in say the Vietnam War or WWII? and why/why not?

No - I don't think we were terrorists during those wars. For one thing - it was NOT our sanctioned policy to kill innocent civilians.

Cirdan - it is service men question kerry's service record. So who is more patriotic then? The person who went before Congress and said that everyone fighting in vietnam was committing war crime? or vietnam veterans who don't think Kerry's record is as clean as he wants to make it out to be? I don't care at all about the swiftboat ads, nore do I care about what happened in vietnam, or who fought in vietnam, who was given special treatment, or anything about that. I think it is completely meaningless. I do have a problem with kerry trying to use his military career when he voted against bill to support the troops - that affected MY BROTHER who is overseas in the Middle East..

[jerseydevil]

By the way - on my way to Great Adventure I thought about the definition of "terrorist" and to me it is "one who purposely attacks or terrorizes innocent civilians for political gains".

I just looked up terrorism in Websters dictionary and it basically gives the SAME definition - "The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." I would say that it has to be directed at innocent civilians though.

We define a lot of things in this world, what makes a murderer, what makes a thief, what makes a rapist. Terrorist is a word we validly use for the likes of bin Ladin and Zarqawi and Hamas. If the Chechyans were attacking russian soldiers - they would not have been terrorists. They crossed the line with the theater hostage situation and then with the school in Beslan - they are NOW terrorists and are no better than Hamas now.

[Millane]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You would think it's an intelligent question.

thats why i said i did, i wasnt playing funny buggers

I guess we'll just call the terrorist, really nice guys who are just misunderstood and were abused as children and never had any friends.

well youve missed the point, im not sure whether Nerdanel was asking for sympathy for them its just that terrorist and terrorism are being thrown about so often nowadays purely for political gain and at the expence of humans emotions.... hmmm now i think we can fit that into your nice little definition, politicians scaring innocent civilians for political gain.

She was making a statement in the form of a question, or do you not understand that concept?

and i read them as i thought they were intended, as questions, once you start making inferences from them you start thinking things like this

I guess we'll just call the terrorist, really nice guys who are just misunderstood and were abused as children and never had any friends.

what about bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was that a terrorist act JD?