Graduation 2004!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
The current line of discussion - and part of BC's sig - together remind me of a conversation I read in part of a Robert Heinlein book many years ago. Something like:

Person A: 'Well... we all know what BS is... do you know what MS is?'
Person B: 'More of the Same!'
Person A: 'Yes... and PhD?'
Person B: 'Uh-huh... Piled higher and Deeper.'



Not to belittle anyone's efforts though... just a slightly cynical view of the world. Congrats to all!

oh - my mother used to always say it was...

BS = Bull ****
MS = More ****
PHD = Piled higher and Deeper

[Starr Polish]

Rian, you left out that, legally, a child can drop out of high school once they're sixteen here in the states (usually their second or third year of high school). It would make it a lot harder to get decent job that you can live off of, though. For people who drop out of high school or never go, you can receive your GED (I think that stands for General Education Diploma...but I'm not sure), which would then act like a high school diploma, and allow you to apply at colleges and further your education.

Also, an explanation on colleges versus universities: Colleges are usually smaller sects of a large university. The university I'm going to has a college of engineering, a college of design, a college of liberal arts and sciences, and so on and so on. Depending on what degree you're pursuing, you'll spend most of your time at one college during your stay at the university.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Colleges are usually smaller sects of a large university.

That can be so - but not necessarily "usually". There are thousands of stand alone colleges too that are not part of any university. NJ has about 21 public colleges - because each county has a public college (looked it up - NJ has 19 county colleges - Cape May and Hunterdon don't have their own county college) - then there are vairous other public and private colleges in the state that are not associated with any university. All together - NJ has 32 colleges (not including academies, technical schools, etc) outside of universities - New Jersey Colleges & Universities, by County

Colleges in a university environment are slightly different than stand alone colleges I think. It's a way for an university to split up their departments. The college I went to - I was getting a bachelors degree in Computer Graphic Programming, while my friend Trish was working on her degree in Radiology. In an university environment - we would not have been in the same "college" like we were there. I would have been in a "college" that taught computers and possibly engineering and she would have been in a medical college on the university campus.

[Starr Polish]

I forgot to include things like community colleges and colleges that aren't part of universities, yes. Which is pretty silly of me, considering both my sister and my mother went to a local community college, and so are at least two of my friends.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's cat
Hi, Arien! I have a good friend who is currently enrolled at the Visual Studies Workshop, a division of the NY State University at Brockport. He is pursuing his MFA in photography and is very enthusiastic about the program he's enrolled in (he just finished his first year of a three year course of study). His biggest problem right now is funding. He is having some difficulty getting financial aid. I'd suggest that you make sure you have everything in writing when you recieve your funding so that the financial aid office can't change their mind mid-stream. My friend was promised things when he applied for aid that have since been recinded, and he is having some difficulty getting funds for the summer semester.

However, he is very happy with the course of study and he is absolutely blossoming in the environment there. He's persuing a dream after many years and he is very happy he made the decsion to go for his MFA after many years being away from school.

Thanks! I've heard that funding is the biggest problem when it comes to Graduate school. My thing is, in my field a Master's really doesn't get you much more money in a job...and some places consider people who have a Master's to be over-qualified for the job. However, it does help if you want to be a professor at a college/university. I know at the University I went to (Indiana University) the professors could have a Bachelor's degree and still teach as long as they had another job in their particular field. (I guess to have experience!)

[Beruthiel's cat]

Good luck, whatever you decide, Arien. Grad school is very tough both academically and financially. But most people I know have found it worth the effort. My friend wants to go into teaching on the college/university level when he is done, and another friend of mine has his Master's Degree in education. He is currently teaching several courses through an online university and is thoroughly enjoying the experience.

[BeardofPants]

So, you can't apply to college/uni without a GED, or High School Diploma? In New Zealand, I think once you reach the age of 20, you can apply to uni without needing to have passed the University Entrance exam, or an equivalent. At least, that's how it used to be - it's been so long since high school, it might've changed since then.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
So, you can't apply to college/uni without a GED, or High School Diploma? In New Zealand, I think once you reach the age of 20, you can apply to uni without needing to have passed the University Entrance exam, or an equivalent. At least, that's how it used to be - it's been so long since high school, it might've changed since then.

Nope - here you can't go to a college or a university without proving that you have the knowledge to pass their classes. if a person drops out of high school at 16 - whether they decide to go to college at 20 or 30 - they probably don't havbe the skills necessary, such as algebra, science and so forth to handle college classes.

Also - colleges look for indications that one is going to put in the effort and take classes seriously. Someone who has dropped out at 16 - has not exactly demonstrated that. By taking the GED they are demonstrating that they are trying to make an effort for a goal and they are more likely to continue that through college.

[BeardofPants]

Interesting. I looked up the procedure for Auckland Uni, and it seems that generally you have to enrol in one of several different programmes available to both prepare you for the uni workload, and determine whether or not you make the grade, and quite a few mature students choose to do it this way (continuing education, wellesley program, and new start are a few programmes I can think of off the top of my head). So it seems that they've changed to entry criteria a bit since I started uni. (But I could be remembering wrong - as obviously I never had to worry about enrolling without University Entrance as I got both UE and Bursary(which used to be final year examinations)). As a note of interest, they're currently trying to overhaul the degree framework to bring it more in line with American faculties (we currently follow a more 'english' model, in that degrees tend to be tightly focussed on areas of interest (ie BA you have a major, a minor, and then you have to take one more subject, so the most you have to be exposed to is maybe three subjects, and any thing more is optional, and you certainly don't have to take a maths paper, or science paper), rather than the more general-knowledge approach that American Universities tend to undertake).

[jerseydevil]

I'm surprised - I figured that British as well as other schools in the world - would give a more well rounded education. Even though I majored in Computer Science, I had to take psychology, sociology, history, science, economics, etc. in addion to all my course required for my major and minor. Some universities and colleges do not allow a student to even pick their major until their sophomore year. The freshman year is spent taking all the base required classes and figuring out what they really want to do and if they have what it takes to do. Then they need to get accepted into their major - AFTER having spent a year at the university/college.

I was wondering - what is making them change to more of the American model?

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Then they need to get accepted into their major - AFTER having spent a year at the university/college.

Yes, on that side of things, I think it's a good thing to have a more well-rounded education, as it allows undergraduates to spread themselves out and figure out what they really want to do. If they had done that when I was a wee undergrad, then it might well have shaved at least a couple of years off my fart-assing around at uni. I might've stumbled across the geography/gis programme sooner. On the other hand, if they'd made me take maths back then, I might not've enrolled at uni. Now, I'm somewhat more comfortable about learning new things (ie VB programming, and mathematical applications for spatial analysis, and photo/satellite interpretation), but back then, I had no confidence in myself, and opted for an easier route. So, I can see pros and cons to the more rounded approach. At any rate, I think it's certainly a positive thing to implement in undergraduate fields of study. However, when it comes to grad school, and doctoral theses, I can't see the logic in forcing them to take the grad-school equivalent of SATs (is this common to all grad-schools, or just the more top-line ones that I've looked at???), and it is my hope that if they DO decide to bring Auckland Uni more in line with the American curriculum, that it doesn't affect grad school (but I know they're considering it).

I was wondering - what is making them change to more of the American model?

Mostly, it's due to the new Vice-Chancellor (who is basically the CEO of the university). But I just found out about this, this morning, so I really don't know much more than that.

[Ben]

Congrats to everyone!
For me, graduation is on June 16th. I'm going to a few graduation parties in the next couple weeks, including one thrown by Greg, if anyone remembers him . Immediately following the actual ceremony is a school-sponsored, all-night party called Project Graduation.

[Starr Polish]

I would just like to make a little statement, very quickly: Dropping out of high school at sixteen isn't always a choice of the student, though often times it is. Sometimes things like family commitments or problems get in the way of school work (for example: A friend of a friend had to drop out to work and take care of his little brother after a family emergency). Also, college isn't really for everyone. We do have apprenticeships here in the U.S. as well. I know a couple of students who, through high school programs, have already completed part of their apprenticeships for construction work.

[Shadowfax]

Hey all! I'm 18 and graduating from High School in Canada. My ceremony is on 29 June, after all the exams are done. Yay! I'm so excited.

In the fall I will be going to the University of Victoria (in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada). I'll be studying to get a Bachelor of Arts degree, majoring in both Medieval Studies and Linguistics with a Minor in English.

Congrats to all the other grads on the 'moot! Woohoo!

[Hemel]

Over here higher and further education seems to be extending. There are loads of ways you can get a university education without necessarily having the traditional 'A' level entry requirements. Lots of them are part time so you can do them while you are working, and afaik tend to be self-funded as well, then. One is through the Open University, then there are Schools of Continuing Education run by lots of universities which will cover up to the first couple of years of a conventional Bachelor's degree, and then (I think) you can transfer full-time to finish off. There are also Access courses, so you can get up to speed for undergrad study if you feel you maybe need some help that way.

I think all this is good, because it takes away the set (élitist? ) route that once was. Like Starr Polish says, dropping out or not going on isn't always the choice of the student, and some people besides don't get themselves together until later on in their lives. But like this means that people like that still have a chance. People change careers too.

It also means you can follow other interests and so on. I know a couple of people who have at least Master's who are doing more undergrad stuff in different subjects, just because they are interested.

For wider-base education ... well, if I'd been forced to do subjects I didn't want to do in my first year at uni I just wouldn't have gone. I spent too much time at school having to do stuff that was meaningless and incredibly boring to me. There are some universities over here that require students in the first year to do things out of their main path - I avoided them! But I do like the philosophy of some other universities, that will allow (encourage even) students to combine things that at first sight seem completely unrelated.

How does higher education get funded in the US? Because I see lots of comments about costs. Here in England we have loans which have to be repaid ... you go on to post-grad and you can end up with loans the size of a mortgage

[Starr Polish]

College and universities tend to be pretty expensive here in the U.S., even if you are going to a federally funded, or public, school. A lot of people I know are actually putting themselves through school, by working part time or doing "work study" (working on campus and getting your earnings put directly into your tuition bill) and working full time on breaks. There are also student loans and parent loans that generally have a lower interest rate than other loans. We can also get scholarships, either federal, regional, local, or from the university or college one chooses. You can get several different scholarships for several different things. Often, they're based on ACT or SAT scores and grade point averages, as well as involvement in one's school acticvities and volunteer work, AND writing skills. I earned a four hundred dollar scholarship this year, thanks to my writing skills, high ACT score, and general involvement in high school (I was in a plethora of activities in the last four years).

If you choose to go to a private college, they're far more expensive, but they generally want people to attend, so they usually end up giving a person enough scholarships to make the cost out of the student's pocket close to the cost of a public school.

You also have to factor in room and board. If a student decides to live at home, that cuts the costs tremendously. If the student doesn't want to live on campus, they only have to pay for tuition and books, but renting apartments in student towns can be pretty expensive as well.

[Starr Polish]

And thanks, Hemel, for kind of "backing up" my point about dropping out of high school. It is a bit of a touchy subject for me, because it's come to my attention that some people think getting a GED is trashy or just says someone is lazy, but I know that's not true. My mother didn't go to high school, but received her GED and then went on to nursing school. She is most definitely not lazy, and makes enough money to support me and herself.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
And thanks, Hemel, for kind of "backing up" my point about dropping out of high school. It is a bit of a touchy subject for me, because it's come to my attention that some people think getting a GED is trashy or just says someone is lazy, but I know that's not true. My mother didn't go to high school, but received her GED and then went on to nursing school. She is most definitely not lazy, and makes enough money to support me and herself.

I want to make it clear that I didn't say it was trashy - but it's important that someone GETS a GED if they want to go to college. I also said that getting a GED shows that a person has the comittment to go to college. It doesn't matter what reason a person drops out of school before graduation - but if they want to go one to college at a later date - they better have the skills and committment to do it before taking that step.

The people who are lazy are people who drop out of school at 16 - can't get a good paying job, don't make an attempt to even get a GED and whine about their deadend job and how they're abused by society because the only job they can get is flipping hamburgers.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Hemel
Over here higher and further education seems to be extending. There are loads of ways you can get a university education without necessarily having the traditional 'A' level entry requirements. Lots of them are part time so you can do them while you are working, and afaik tend to be self-funded as well, then. One is through the Open University, then there are Schools of Continuing Education run by lots of universities which will cover up to the first couple of years of a conventional Bachelor's degree, and then (I think) you can transfer full-time to finish off. There are also Access courses, so you can get up to speed for undergrad study if you feel you maybe need some help that way.

Over here there are tons of different colleges and universities. My cousin is going to Ocean County college for teaching - starting out there for 2 years to get his base courses and then is going onto a different college in Southern New Jersey to get his degree. Ocean County college is cheaper because it's a community college and he also is able to live at home while going there. Also - the requirements for getting in their are lower than other colleges.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Rian, you left out that, legally, a child can drop out of high school once they're sixteen here in the states (usually their second or third year of high school). It would make it a lot harder to get decent job that you can live off of, though. For people who drop out of high school or never go, you can receive your GED (I think that stands for General Education Diploma...but I'm not sure), which would then act like a high school diploma, and allow you to apply at colleges and further your education.

Oh, I didn't realize that, Starr - thanks for the info and a BIG thanks for this:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
I would just like to make a little statement, very quickly: Dropping out of high school at sixteen isn't always a choice of the student, though often times it is. Sometimes things like family commitments or problems get in the way of school work (for example: A friend of a friend had to drop out to work and take care of his little brother after a family emergency). Also, college isn't really for everyone. We do have apprenticeships here in the U.S. as well. I know a couple of students who, through high school programs, have already completed part of their apprenticeships for construction work.

Excellent point - esp. that sometimes teens have to leave school to take care of family members. Thanks for bringing that up. We who are fortunate enough to go to college need to remember to not look down on those that haven't had a chance but would have loved to have gone. As JD pointed out, there are those that quit because they're lazy, but there's also many that are good, hard workers but can't afford college for family or other good reasons. And there are plenty of people in college/uni that are moral bums and wouldn't lift their little finger to help a family member or friend.