Gas Prices

[Tessar]

Yeah, I'm already budgeting for $5 a gallon and wondering if that's going to be enough. I could easily see it shooting to $6 or higher.

On the plus side, this will probably be great for the environment. I hope. That's my uneducated guess, since most people will probably be starting to drive less and be trying to conserve fuel.

On the down side, I live way too freaking far away from school. Argh. Never mind paying tuition, I'm going to have to work three jobs just to actually be able to -get- to school .


I'm seriously considering a motorcycle for when/if my car gives out in a few more years... But I don't know if I could pull that off. I probably could... I wouldn't mind even just taking the access roads and staying mainly off of the highway, so staying around 45-55 MPH. I am the furthest thing from a speed demon you can imagine .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Fortunately it stopped at about 4.60. There's one station nearby where it's as low as 4.52, if you pay cash. It was sky-rocketing for some time, but it's been steady for a few weeks now.

So sad when we're happy to fill our tanks for less than 50 dollars.

[Lief Erikson]

I wonder of motorcycles and bikes are going to become much more common as a result of this. They probably will.

I've evaded bikes and cycles because my Dad gives me many dire warnings about how lethal them + cars are. But if the cars declined in number significantly, and bikes and motorcycles became more common, perhaps they'd also become correspondingly less endangered .

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Anyway, twenty miles away from the nearest decent town, so walking isn't really an option for me... I miss public transporation.

That probably will wind up being one of the future's solutions. By the time you're old and gray . Well, hopefully sooner.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It already IS a solution, in any half-way decent city. Or at least, any half-way decent metropolis.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

It already IS a solution, in any half-way decent city. Or at least, any half-way decent metropolis.

Yeah, but there's a lot of debate about whether to spend city money expanding it or expanding the highways and freeways. Fuel costs will probably tip the balance considerably more toward mass transit.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Yeah, but there's a lot of debate about whether to spend city money expanding it or expanding the highways and freeways. Fuel costs will probably tip the balance considerably more toward mass transit.

One would hope so; who knows, maybe even decent-sized towns will start having decent PT.

*starts dreaming of a shuttle bus to Ventura*

*or preferably a metro, since he hates busses*

[The last sane person]

*sputters and looks at the prices from the front page*

If only, we sure as hell wouldnt be griping about 1.95 gallon gas now, would we? Oh wel, those days shall never come back again.

[GrayMouser]

I've got to admit, it doesn't affect me that much- I live in a town that's small, flat and sub-tropical; I do my daily commute by bicycle (on a nice convenient bike path along the river), my wife works from home, and my kids bike/walk to school. Running around I do by 125cc scooter, and for other trips I have a 1100cc min-van, which I usually use for one weekly shopping trip, or the beach on weekends.

Paying the electric bills for the air-conditioning in the summer, now that's getting expensive. Our power here is mostly LNG (with some nuke), so that's going up too.

[Lief Erikson]

Oh my gosh, GrayMouser, you're so lucky!!!!!!

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah GreyMouser, nicely done!

Answering IRex's questions:

1. How much are they where you are?

$1.52 CAN per litre (or $5.87 US per gallon*)!

2. What kind of car do you drive/your parents drive?

My fiance drives a 1998 Dodge Neon. Just so you know, it was 2000 when GM started improving these rust buckets. Phil Edmonston (Lemon-Aid car guides) writes that they, "eat head gaskets for breakfast, and wallets for lunch." My fiance emphasizes that, "It really does."

My parents drive a 2005 Toyota Highlander. They considered getting the hybrid, but decided the fuel efficiency savings would not be worth the extra $4000. I think they made a good call since unfortunately, manufacturers have really lowballed the fuel efficiencies. My parents are environmentally-conscious, but they love to camp, and a small, gas sipping car wouldn't be able to pull their 12-foot trailer.

I drive a pair of worn hiking shoes.

3. Have you changed any of your normal habits because of the huge increase in gas prices recently?

No, but I already walk to work, walk or bus for shopping and fun, and occasionally gas up my fiance's Neon. When I drive, I don't speed and I accelerate and decelerate smoothly.

Like Brownie, I have areas of spending that have nothing to do with driving that I'd cut back on in an effort to save money.

Originally Posted by Tessar

I'm seriously considering a motorcycle for when/if my car gives out in a few more years... But I don't know if I could pull that off. I probably could... I wouldn't mind even just taking the access roads and staying mainly off of the highway, so staying around 45-55 MPH. I am the furthest thing from a speed demon you can imagine .

I think there are small motorcycles that get 4 L/100km (70 MPG). You can get panniers for them to fit your schoolbooks so you don't have to wear a backpack when riding.

Originally Posted by The last sane person

*sputters and looks at the prices from the front page*

If only, we sure as hell wouldnt be griping about 1.95 gallon gas now, would we? Oh wel, those days shall never come back again.

I know, isn't it hilarious? If we could only listen to ourselves complaining 5 years ago, maybe we'd realize how pointless and annoying it is.

Then again, I don't own a car so I have no real reason to complain about the price of gas.

* Is my calculation right? Because it seems so much worse in gallons.

$1.02 US = $1 CAN
1 US gal = 3.785 L

[Coffeehouse]

4-5$ per gallon!

The average price in Norway currently lies at about 11.8$ per gallon

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

How big is Norway?

The problem the US has is that we designed our lives around cheap private commutes. Things are far apart...and Walmart didn't help. The factbook lists Norway as 'slightly larger than New Mexico', but I see most of that is North-South. So Tronheim to Oslo is about 345 miles. That's about Baltimore MD to Durham NC. Probably darn few people commute that everyday, but a daily commute of an hour and a half isn't at all unusual, and people tend to be pretty far from their families. So for me, for example, other than the persons in this house, my nearest relatives are 100 miles, and 290 miles.

There are corridors of public transit...we have a number of neighbors who can commute by train, for example, and that's common in metropolitan areas in the northeast. But getting everyone to where they work and go to school...that's a tough one.

Around here, the schools are just about to find out how expensive it is to put kids on busses. Won't be pretty, at budget time.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

How big is Norway?

The problem the US has is that we designed our lives around cheap private commutes. Things are far apart...and Walmart didn't help. The factbook lists Norway as 'slightly larger than New Mexico', but I see most of that is North-South. So Tronheim to Oslo is about 345 miles. That's about Baltimore MD to Durham NC. Probably darn few people commute that everyday, but a daily commute of an hour and a half isn't at all unusual, and people tend to be pretty far from their families. So for me, for example, other than the persons in this house, my nearest relatives are 100 miles, and 290 miles.

There are corridors of public transit...we have a number of neighbors who can commute by train, for example, and that's common in metropolitan areas in the northeast. But getting everyone to where they work and go to school...that's a tough one.

Around here, the schools are just about to find out how expensive it is to put kids on busses. Won't be pretty, at budget time.

Well the reason our price per gallon is amongst the highest in the world (if not the highest) is due to a number of reasons.
Firstly we slap on a fuel tax, VAT and a environmental tax. This gov't taxation is then used to provide welfare/social services. Both Sweden and Denmark retain the same kind of taxation policy on consumption prices for oil, as does most other countries in Western Europe, although the taxes are not as high. The positive part of this is that oil has remained a luxury of sorts, being quite expensive, for a long time. However, when the price of oil worldwide rises with 2% a likewise increase occurs in Norwegian consumer prices for oil. But having high prices already prepares most consumers for what is now happening.

Distances are not as far as in USA true, but commuting for 1 and a half hour in Norway is not unusual. This is basically because we have a very mountainous geography, roads slinging here and there between hills and into valleys, and along fjords. Thankfully we have tunnels! Our road nation is a nation of tunnels

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Well, our $4.60 is going straight into the pockets of Republican politicians, which is one of the things that makes it so hard to stomach.

Fuel oil will be a nightmare this winter.

[Insidious Rex]

Geez yer right. If only gas was as “cheap” as it was back in 2004 when we were all bitching about it…

What I don’t get is why more and more people think that we can dig our way out of this situation still. In fact its become a point of debate in the presidential election. Ive heard that a full 40% of the oil we get from US territory is exported by the big oil companies. And yet you dont seem to hear the republicans screaming about that. Ive also heard that if they were granted the right to dig in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge that we wouldn’t even start getting that oil into the system until 2018! And that it would peek by 2025. So really whats the point of that? And anyway any decrease in the price of world oil due to that drilling would be offset by OPEC and others who would simply decrease supply correspondingly. So why is it that so many people choose to live in this world of denial about our local oil prospects? Maybe once we get the technology to deal with shale oil and sand oil but that’s way off still. And really we should be putting our focus in things like algae biofuels. This ethanol thing was clearly a mistake and millions are starving now because of it. Algae is 40 times more efficient than corn in creating fuel. So maybe we could scrap this silly notion of digging up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and instead put like 2% of the money we used for military conflicts in the past 7 years into biofuel research and we will be sitting pretty by 2018.

[Tessar]

Isn't there some problem with the algae too, though? Like if we turn it into fuel within thirty years or so there will be ocean problems because of it?

I don't know, but I seem to recall hearing something like that.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Isn't there some problem with the algae too, though? Like if we turn it into fuel within thirty years or so there will be ocean problems because of it?

I don't know, but I seem to recall hearing something like that.

I dont think so. The algea farms could be in deserts or near dumps taking up land we dont otherwise use. Im not sure how it would impact oceans. I had heard they would be using the salinity from desert lands and bad lands for their environment. And whats more they would also require CO2 to produce fuel. So think about this... a fast growing creature that can take up 1% of the space corn needs, thrives in real estate we would never be interested in anyway and eats pollution to make fuel.... And why havent we spent more money looking into this exactly?

[Nurvingiel]

It sounds like algae is worth exploring. Hopefully we won't do anything moronic. It couldn't be worse than biodiesel made out of soybeans or corn. Turning nutritious food into fuel for vehicles in a weak attempt to prolong our ridiculous car culture strikes me as profoundly wrong.

Biodiesel made from waste cooking oil, however, is awesome.

Gas may be expensive in Norway, but at least you guys have awesome inter- and intracity transit! I only spend 5 days there, but I took the train and but from Sweden to Trondheim, and took the tram, bus, ferry or walked everywhere for my visit there. There were also bicycles you could borrow from the city for 5 crowns (or something reasonable like that) but I never got around to that.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

It sounds like algae is worth exploring. Hopefully we won't do anything moronic. It couldn't be worse than biodiesel made out of soybeans or corn. Turning nutritious food into fuel for vehicles in a weak attempt to prolong our ridiculous car culture strikes me as profoundly wrong.

Biodiesel made from waste cooking oil, however, is awesome.

Gas may be expensive in Norway, but at least you guys have awesome inter- and intracity transit! I only spend 5 days there, but I took the train and but from Sweden to Trondheim, and took the tram, bus, ferry or walked everywhere for my visit there. There were also bicycles you could borrow from the city for 5 crowns (or something reasonable like that) but I never got around to that.

Mhm biodiesel definitely isn't the way. I believe the EU parliament, acting on the percentage of non-oil/gas fuels for cars in Europe at gas stations, just recently decided that the percentage should not be explicitly biodiesel. It's subtle, but its a nod that using biodiesel is unsustainable for both Europeans and the third world.

I'm glad you think so Nurv, but our train transport could still be an entirely different story. We have to keep at it and enlarge the train system, upgrade the trains and lower the the prices. It's still preferable for me to take the plane(!) from Trondheim to Oslo. Price is relatively the same, but it takes 45 min by plane, not the 6-8 hours by train.. The gov't needs to get its act together.

The reason I raised the high price of oil, and I'm unsure if anyone has realised the intense irony of this; and that is that Norway is the world's 3rd largest exporter of oil...

[Nurvingiel]

I did know, but forgot to mention, that Norway has a huge amount of oil reserves. I believe this accounts for your lack of a national debt, though the only way this benefits the average Norwegian is that none of your tax dollars have to go to debt payment.

I love trains so much. As long as the train doesn't cost too much, I would take an 8 hour train ride over a 45 minute flight. I just love trains so very much!