NEWS-girl killed by mechanic in FL. - Page 3

jerseydevil · 02-09-2004, 06:57 PM

I have no problem with the death penalty. Some crimes fit the punishment. It also isn't the easiest thing to get the death penalty. It has to be unanimous jury and then it goes through repeated appeals. Even after all that - the person may never be executed.

Insidious Rex · 02-09-2004, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I just heard on the news that this guy is the father of three little girls. What a wacko!

one of his neighbors said that she always thought he was a great father to his kids though. Thats why Im so interested in finding out the facts to this case. What the hell happened? Did this guy snap? Most of his convictions were drug related or stuff like keeping an unregisted fire arm. Only one was actually assault I think and that was assaulting another adult. Hed never had any issues with kids I dont think. So was he just out of his mind on drugs at the time? Did he snap? Was he thinking hed use her for ransom and then panicked? Id like to know before you guys lynch him and drag his body down main street.

hectorberlioz · 02-09-2004, 10:17 PM

and if it was an accident type thing, he shouldnt get the death penalty, but he should still be harshly (as in, a real tough term behind the bars) punished.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-10-2004, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Id like to know before you guys lynch him and drag his body down main street.

You guys? I don't recall saying any such thing. I did speak on the death penalty.

Shadowfax · 02-10-2004, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Doesn't the bible say something about [an eye for eye, tooth for tooth]?

Yes it does: Exodus 21:23-25:

Quote:

"But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, bruise for bruise."

And this is not referring to trade (as I think BoP said), but to personal injury. (In case anyone was wondering, Exodus is thought to have been written around 1500-1400 BC.)

BeardofPants · 02-10-2004, 02:02 AM

Yes, but I'm pretty sure the phrase pre-dates the biblical inclusion - I think it comes from mesopotamia or something like that.

Edit - yeah it comes from Hammurabi... one of the first set of codified laws to be written up I believe... Not sure where I got the trade thing from - vaguely remember some lecturer telling us about it, but I can't find anything. Mebbe I'm thinking of something else?

**Nurvingiel** · 02-10-2004, 02:08 AM

Myself, Hemel, and The Gaffer are against the death penalty altogether. Obviously everyone in this thread can't be lumped into one group.

BeardofPants · 02-10-2004, 02:47 AM

Okay, now I've got it... The Laws of Hammurabi deal quite a lot with trade and such, and if such and such forfeits, they'll have their eyes cut out. So I WAS correct in thinking that it deal with trade, but wrong in assessing that it wasn't meant in a vengeful manner. It seems that the bible usage is correct in accordance to the origin of the statement.

The Laws of Hammurabi:
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/worl...hammurabi.html

Shadowfax · 02-10-2004, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Okay, now I've got it... The Laws of Hammurabi deal quite a lot with trade and such, and if such and such forfeits, they'll have their eyes cut out. So I WAS correct in thinking that it deal with trade, but wrong in assessing that it wasn't meant in a vengeful manner. It seems that the bible usage is correct in accordance to the origin of the statement.

The Laws of Hammurabi:
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/worl...hammurabi.html

Ok.

Thanks for looking up sources. That always helps.

Sminty_Smeagol · 02-10-2004, 07:18 AM

Somewhere in the bible it says that if an owner knows that his ox or something is dangerous (as in it has previously attacked someone) and it kills someone that the owner should be killed.
Wow. It was in the old testament tho and thats the thing a lot of christians are like 'jesus fulfilled the old testament we don't have to do that anymore' but supposedly it was 'god's law not the pharisees or whatever. Plus there aren't any laws in the new testament really I don't think... whats with that

sun-star · 02-10-2004, 11:43 AM

I am opposed to the death penalty. For me, you either think murder and torture are wrong, or you don't. To say it's totally wrong to kill an innocent person and perfectly right to kill a guilty one is a triumph of emotion over reason, and the beginning of a dangerous train of thought, IMO.

BeardofPants · 02-10-2004, 03:27 PM

Well said, Sun Star.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-10-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sun-star
I am opposed to the death penalty. For me, you either think murder and torture are wrong, or you don't. To say it's totally wrong to kill an innocent person and perfectly right to kill a guilty one is a triumph of emotion over reason, and the beginning of a dangerous train of thought, IMO.

In this situation, what would you suggest should happen, or in any situation of cold blooded murder? I for one am not eager to work my ass off all day every day to feed, cloth, and support some idiot that doesn't know I exist or cares if I live or die, let alone his victim. I don't think he should be tortured and people only feel that way because they are angry now. If the system works, he will die though, and deservedly. More mercifully than she did.

jerseydevil · 02-10-2004, 06:06 PM

I agree with SGH. Also the death penalty in the US has nothing to do with emotion - it has to do with the severity of the crime. People outside US have no understanding what so ever of our justice system or our death penalty. Some of the comments from non-Americnas has made this perfectly clear.

Hemel · 02-10-2004, 07:18 PM

*sigh*

Come on, JD, let's not start the US vs the rest again.

I don't agree with the death penalty. I don't care what the country is that enacts it, nor how they may try to sanitise it, nor how they may try to justify it.

I think the death penalty is barbaric. End of story.

jerseydevil · 02-10-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hemel
*sigh*

Come on, JD, let's not start the US vs the rest again.

I'm not - it's just a fact that they don't understand our justice system - but yet have no problem in saying how it works here. If they didn't tell Americans about OUR justice system - I wouldn't have to tell them they have no idea what they are talking about.

I realize that sun-star didn't point out America in particular - but many people have posted before about how America can just kill anyone with the death penalty.

Quote:

I don't agree with the death penalty. I don't care what the country is that enacts it, nor how they may try to sanitise it, nor how they may try to justify it. Anyway - the death penalty is a STATE issue and NOT a US issue.

I think the death penalty is barbaric. End of story.

I don't - nor do the majority of Americans. Some crimes fit the death penalty and each case has to be based on it's individual merits.

BeardofPants · 02-10-2004, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I for one am not eager to work my ass off all day every day to feed, cloth, and support some idiot that doesn't know I exist or cares if I live or die, let alone his victim.

Yes - but you are willing to pay for his/her appeals on deathrow? Because the reality is that it costs more to put a criminal to death, than it does to keep him/her in prison.

JD - just because someone disagrees with the death penalty, doesn't mean that they are against America.

**Nurvingiel** · 02-10-2004, 10:11 PM

The USA isn't the only country with a death penalty anyway. I actually think it would cost more to keep someone in jail for the rest of their natural lives than it would to go through the appeal process. However, money is not a good consideration of wether or not to put someone to death.

Insidious Rex · 02-10-2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I actually think it would cost more to keep someone in jail for the rest of their natural lives than it would to go through the appeal process.

No thats an old pro argument for killing people but its been disproven. The amount of money poured into captial punishment cases and the special housing and all that is still a lot more then putting someone in jail for life.

jerseydevil · 02-10-2004, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
JD - just because someone disagrees with the death penalty, doesn't mean that they are against America.

I didn't say it was.

It's when people outside the US start trying to say how the US justice system works and how the death penalty is handed out, when they obviously have no idea what they are talking about that bugs me. As I said - Sun-Star didn't mention the US - but it has come up before with past threads from various people.

02-09-2004, 06:57 PM	#41
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I have no problem with the death penalty. Some crimes fit the punishment. It also isn't the easiest thing to get the death penalty. It has to be unanimous jury and then it goes through repeated appeals. Even after all that - the person may never be executed. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-09-2004, 10:17 PM	#43
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	and if it was an accident type thing, he shouldnt get the death penalty, but he should still be harshly (as in, a real tough term behind the bars) punished. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

02-10-2004, 02:02 AM	#46
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yes, but I'm pretty sure the phrase pre-dates the biblical inclusion - I think it comes from mesopotamia or something like that. Edit - yeah it comes from Hammurabi... one of the first set of codified laws to be written up I believe... Not sure where I got the trade thing from - vaguely remember some lecturer telling us about it, but I can't find anything. Mebbe I'm thinking of something else? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 02-10-2004 at 02:17 AM.

02-10-2004, 02:47 AM	#48
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Okay, now I've got it... The Laws of Hammurabi deal quite a lot with trade and such, and if such and such forfeits, they'll have their eyes cut out. So I WAS correct in thinking that it deal with trade, but wrong in assessing that it wasn't meant in a vengeful manner. It seems that the bible usage is correct in accordance to the origin of the statement. The Laws of Hammurabi: http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/worl...hammurabi.html __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

02-10-2004, 07:18 AM	#50
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	Somewhere in the bible it says that if an owner knows that his ox or something is dangerous (as in it has previously attacked someone) and it kills someone that the owner should be killed. Wow. It was in the old testament tho and thats the thing a lot of christians are like 'jesus fulfilled the old testament we don't have to do that anymore' but supposedly it was 'god's law not the pharisees or whatever. Plus there aren't any laws in the new testament really I don't think... whats with that __________________ I love the fishes.

02-10-2004, 11:43 AM	#51
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I am opposed to the death penalty. For me, you either think murder and torture are wrong, or you don't. To say it's totally wrong to kill an innocent person and perfectly right to kill a guilty one is a triumph of emotion over reason, and the beginning of a dangerous train of thought, IMO. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

02-10-2004, 03:27 PM	#52
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Well said, Sun Star. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

02-10-2004, 06:06 PM	#54
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I agree with SGH. Also the death penalty in the US has nothing to do with emotion - it has to do with the severity of the crime. People outside US have no understanding what so ever of our justice system or our death penalty. Some of the comments from non-Americnas has made this perfectly clear. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-10-2004, 07:18 PM	#55
Hemel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on the boats Posts: 264	sigh Come on, JD, let's not start the US vs the rest again. I don't agree with the death penalty. I don't care what the country is that enacts it, nor how they may try to sanitise it, nor how they may try to justify it. I think the death penalty is barbaric. End of story. Last edited by Hemel : 02-10-2004 at 07:20 PM.

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