Fox Hunting

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I don't agree with that and I think it's a simplistic view. I do think a lot of people who are ardently against it - are very much on the extreme end. I have seen them demonstrating in England and they have the same propaganda as the anti-abortionists, PETA, etc. I don't take them very seriously - because of the amount of sensationalism they partake in. They go for shock value.

And what if the evidence against it is just truely shocking? Are they not allowed to provide that evidence merely because it offends you?

The video at that site was from an actual hunt. It wasn't something staged. You are so quick to attack people who stand for what is right.

[Radagast]

Originally posted by sun-star
That’s interesting, thanks. It’s much more wide-spread than I thought.

What does everyone think of this (from the website JD posted), a quote from a representative of a French anti-hunting group:



True?

Definately not. It wasn't foxes but I was invited to a shoot at Molyneaux Hall about twenty years ago (I was only about eight or so at the time, my father was invited more than me) and the late Countess of Sefton was one of the most ardent huntresses I have ever seen!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by sun-star
I don't agree with it either And though I don't like fox-hunting, I can't stand the tactics the hunt saboteurs use to get their point across. However terrible violence against animals is, it doesn't justify violence against people

I agree that violence against anyone is wrong.

The tactics that are common are to drag bags of dog food across the trail of the fox to mislead and confuse the hounds.

[Ruinel]

The myth that fox hunting helps the farmer is a erroneous...

The lamb carcasses at fox dens are mainly carrion, i.e. a lamb already dead when taken by the fox.
Notes from the Mammal Society, No. 50, 1985, pages 291-296.

A study of lambing in upland areas showed that lamb losses were unaffected by the presence of foxes.
Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food report, 1985.

On the Scottish island of Mull, there are no foxes yet lamb production is no better than in comparable areas where there are foxes.
Journal of Applied Ecology, 1984, pp 843-868.

[Ruinel]

In Texas, guns are legal. If this were reversed, and hunts were going on here, and I was a farmer... I'd pull a gun on any hunt that trespassed on my property. No exceptions!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
No, I don't think that is true. It isn't just women who oppose the mistreatment of animals, it's anyone who understands what is right and is moral. It isn't only women who are moral.

I guess I don't uynderstand what is right and moral then. I guess I am not moral.

I'm just not going to accept what some fanatics say at face value. I can post any kind of pictures on a website - doesn't make it true.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I guess I don't uynderstand what is right and moral then. I guess I am not moral.

I'm just not going to accept what some fanatics say at face value. I can post any kind of pictures on a website - doesn't make it true.

I tell you what, JD... you show us a video of a hound neatly and humanely biting the neck of the fox and I'll back down on this.

[Ruinel]

oh... my 5000th post.


Radagast, when you were on the hunt... how did the fox die? Where you witness to it's death? How did it make you feel to watch it?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I tell you what, JD... you show us a video of a hound neatly and humanely biting the neck of the fox and I'll back down on this.

Why - you wouldn't believe it anyway. It doesn't really matter. The articles you showed me had people who were neutral saying how generally the fox isn't ripped part. You choose to believe the other side.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I consider any hunting for sport to be wrong; so I'm opposed to fox-hunting.

Those pictures you showed were awful, Ru!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
oh... my 5000th post.

I'd better watch out...

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Hound packs (as well as draghounds) other than Britain

[....]

Australia.........23

But foxes are a pest here. They'd do more damage if we didn't stop them from spreading.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Why - you wouldn't believe it anyway. It doesn't really matter. The articles you showed me had people who were neutral saying how generally the fox isn't ripped part. You choose to believe the other side.

No, what I showed you was the news media covering both sides of the issue. And what they each had to say. Those that were pro-Fox-Hunting said the fox isn't ripped apart, but neatly nipped on the back of the neck by ONE dog of the pack while the others hold themselves back. Those that were against Fox Hunting said the fox is ripped apart by the pack of hounds.

I know dogs enough to know that when they are in a frenzy like that, they will go to instinct... they aren't going to sit back and wait for one lead dog to gently and humanely nip the fox's neck and kill it.

And yes, I'll watch it with a neutral eye if you can find a video that shows one dog of the pack coming forward doing just what they describe. Go ahead! Post it! I dare you!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I'd better watch out...

Yeah, you better.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
But foxes are a pest here. They'd do more damage if we didn't stop them from spreading.

Weren't foxes introduced to Australia? (I'm not sure.)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
No, what I showed you was the news media covering both sides of the issue. And what they each had to say. Those that were pro-Fox-Hunting said the fox isn't ripped apart, but neatly nipped on the back of the neck by ONE dog of the pack while the others hold themselves back. Those that were against Fox Hunting said the fox is ripped apart by the pack of hounds.

No - actually one was a professor at Oxford and had nothing to do with the hunt. He was the one that said that studies show that hound hunting is actually less painfull to the animal than shooting it.

Is fox hunting cruel?
...The crux of the whole fox hunting debate, for many people, is the issue of cruelty.

Is being chased for several hours to be killed by a pack of dogs cruel?

No, say hunt supporters, citing the top dog of the pack's natural instinct to administer a "quick nip" to the back of the fox's head, which they allege kills it outright.

They also point to research by Dr David McDonald at Oxford University's Wildlife Conservation Research Unit which suggests that the average duration of a hunt is 17 minutes.

The fox does not anticipate death, they say, so is not unduly traumatised by the pursuit.

And the alternatives - shooting, gassing, snaring or poisoning - would all inflict much more pain and suffering on the foxes. Already, 10 times as many foxes are shot each year than are hunted to death, they say. That figure would only increase if hunting was banned...

I know dogs enough to know that when they are in a frenzy like that, they will go to instinct... they aren't going to sit back and wait for one lead dog to gently and humanely nip the fox's neck and kill it.

You haven't been on a fox hunt - you don't really know.

And yes, I'll watch it with a neutral eye if you can find a video that shows one dog of the pack coming forward doing just what they describe. Go ahead! Post it! I dare you!

I seriously doubt they have them on the web. They have no reason to. Unlike the fanatics that try to discredit them. Should I drag up some anti-abortion pictures for you?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Weren't foxes introduced to Australia? (I'm not sure.)

According to the website she posted they were - for the purpose of fox hunting.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
...I seriously doubt they have them on the web. They have no reason to. Unlike the fanatics that try to discredit them. Should I drag up some anti-abortion pictures for you?

why don't you start your own thread and not spam this one with the abortion issue. You keep bringing that up hoping to take this thread on a tangent. So open your own thread about that if you want.

[Ruinel]

Is fox hunting cruel?
...The crux of the whole fox hunting debate, for many people, is the issue of cruelty.

Is being chased for several hours to be killed by a pack of dogs cruel?

No, say hunt supporters, citing the top dog of the pack's natural instinct to administer a "quick nip" to the back of the fox's head, which they allege kills it outright.

They also point to research by Dr David McDonald at Oxford University's Wildlife Conservation Research Unit which suggests that the average duration of a hunt is 17 minutes.

The fox does not anticipate death, they say, so is not unduly traumatised by the pursuit.

And the alternatives - shooting, gassing, snaring or poisoning - would all inflict much more pain and suffering on the foxes. Already, 10 times as many foxes are shot each year than are hunted to death, they say. That figure would only increase if hunting was banned...

The people who are for fox hunting are going to say what they have to in order to keep this from being banned.

You haven't been on a hunt either. You don't know what it's like. I'm anxious for those pics, JD... where are they?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
why don't you start your own thread and not spam this one with the abortion issue. You keep bringing that up hoping to take this thread on a tangent. So open your own thread about that if you want.

I'm not trying to get this off topic. But I think that if you want to believe all those pictures and quotes from the anti-fox hunting crowd are true - then you should be willing to accept that the pictures that the anti-abortionists use are all true. If you're going to complain about fox-hunting - then you should be more against abortion.