05-26-2006, 12:35 PM | #41 |
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weeeeeeeelll....who do you think sauron represents? i think that as Melkor is clearly Satan, Sauron is the Anti-Christ...Gandalf, of course, being Jesus...
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05-26-2006, 01:02 PM | #42 |
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I don't so much see him as an anti-christ, at least not in the sil, but as a fallen angel because he originally worked for the good side, working for Aule. same with saruman in the third age. i like your idea of Gandalf being Jesus. sacrificing himself in all knowledge, probally, that he would be killed. 12, at least, *deciples* thinking him dead and moarning him in their own way (rest of fellowship, Elrond, Galadriel, Faramir, and Glorfindal. i know there are probally others, but those were the only ones i could think of, and of course keeping within the limits), and then coming back more powerful and wonderful then he was before.
note: i'm not religious in any way.
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05-26-2006, 01:05 PM | #43 |
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yes, gandalf has often been compared to Christ, and when i made the Anti-Christ comment, i had only the LotR in mind...hm...taking into light the Sil, perhaps he is a high-ranking demon...Mephistopheles? maybe Beelzebub...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-26-2006, 01:09 PM | #44 |
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gandalf a demon.
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05-26-2006, 02:06 PM | #45 |
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no!!! sauron a demon!!!
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-26-2006, 03:40 PM | #46 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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05-26-2006, 03:47 PM | #47 |
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i didn't say he DIRECTLY or INTENTIONATLY made gandy Jesus, buuuut....
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-26-2006, 04:42 PM | #48 |
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phew! anything else?
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05-26-2006, 08:47 PM | #49 |
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hm...how about elvis REALLY being an alien and appearing as Manwe, the King? dunno...*thinks hard*...i'll come back with one...don't you worry...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-26-2006, 11:47 PM | #50 |
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I had read somewhere that EArandil is considered by some to be a sort of "Christ". any opinions? He did, after all, come on behalf of BOTH races...as Christ did being both God and human.
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05-27-2006, 02:15 AM | #51 | ||
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It does reffer to a divine messenger, but apparently not to Chris; in Notion Club Papers, HoME IX, we find this footnote:
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Last edited by Landroval : 05-27-2006 at 04:22 AM. |
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05-27-2006, 04:36 AM | #52 |
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i have never read the Norton Club Papers because i find them too boring.
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05-27-2006, 07:39 AM | #53 |
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so maybe earendil is like...some kind of...prophet? or priest?
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-27-2006, 08:39 AM | #54 | |||
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In letter #142, Tolkien states that "...I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism." So the priest label would not directly fit anyone.
Concerning prophecies, Earendil fulfilled them, as a divine messenger; I am not aware he made any. Quote:
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05-27-2006, 08:45 AM | #55 |
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i didn't mean prophet so much as him prophesizing[sp?] so much as just being an ambassador between gods and men...which he does...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-27-2006, 08:48 AM | #56 |
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Well, of all the ambasadors, he succeeded even where Ulmo 'failed'.
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05-27-2006, 08:50 AM | #57 |
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true...which is why i think he was a special "ambassador"...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-27-2006, 01:45 PM | #58 |
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ok, we all know that he is an ambassador for both the Noldor of Beleriand and Men, and that he managed to do his job because of the fall of Gondolin. Well, what if Eol had managed to kill Maeglin, and so he wasn't there to cause it's fall. Would Earendil have still been able to fill his role, but just done different, or would it have been done by someone else by some other way?
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05-27-2006, 02:03 PM | #59 |
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i think he would have no reason to go to the Valar and thus wouldn't, and would either go when he needed to or, if he was old or dead, someone else would.
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
05-27-2006, 02:58 PM | #60 |
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if someone else had to do the task, who would you pick, who was alive at the time earendil had to do it. i would chose either Maedhros or Maglor because although they took the Oath willingly, they really seemed to repent it, especially in the later years. So this would be a really good chance to repent the fact that they ever took an oath, and the effects that's it's caused.
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