07-05-2003, 12:56 PM | #41 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acad...40/flood20.htm
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
||
07-05-2003, 01:05 PM | #42 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
I checked the math on my calculator. There are several things that don't seem to be taken into account, though. I'll save the most important of them for last. Firstly, the culture at that time permitted the man to marry more than one woman. Harems were permitted. Jacob had more than one wife (Leah and Rachel), and this is not counting concubines (of which Abraham had at least one, mentioned in the Bible). Secondly, the men of the time period, for a period of time after the flood, continued to live exceptionally long lives. Noah lived 350 years after the flood. This means that in the early years, through the first few generations, at least, people were living a lot longer. They had more time to reproduce (possibly reproducing bastards; I don't know whether or not they were counted in the genealogies). So you wouldn't see very much death at that time, anyway. Lastly, I don't count the date of 2500 BC as an exact date. The young earth dates we have seen in the accounts I brought up have varied to a broad extent. My Dad's research of the Old Testament has shown that the construction of the pyramids almost certainly took place at the time of Joseph. I will be pleased to give you this information, if you like. If we look at the timeline in Luke, we see that there are actually 14 generations between Joseph's generation and Noah's. That I think changes the scope of things by a large amount. Now let's look at the ages again. Jacob lived to be 147 years old, and he's a long way down in the timeline from Noah's generation. Jacob comes right before Joseph, who lived 110 years. So we have people living each for a very long period of time, giving birth to a certain amount of written down children, and very possibly a large amount more that aren't written down, and with fourteen generations to reproduce in, a huge amount more people would be produced. With these factors taken into account, I hope the problem you see might be explained. Of course, that leaves the questions of how I know Joseph's generation was the one in which the pyramids were built, and why people lived longer before the flood. Both are questions that to answer, I'd likely have to give huge answers. The answer having to do with the long ages of people also has to get into the flood, what types of effects it would have upon the environment, and what the environment would have been like before the flood. My Dad is capable of going into these questions in depth, and unfortunately I could only give you a rough idea of the effects taking place, if you wanted it. The other has to do with chronology, and the mystery of the Egyptian Third Intermediate Period. I'm far better qualified to speak to you on that subject, the fourteen generations, if you're curious. |
||
07-05-2003, 01:52 PM | #43 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
I haven't read your whole thing - but i wanted to ask you this - where is the proof that man lived 350 years old? Why don't we live that old now - even with modern medicine? That is so fichtion - I can't belive you actually used it as supporting evidence. I will say this again - the bible is a work of FICTION - that being a prime example. I can not believe that you say that evolution is hard to believe - but yet you have no problem believing in fairy tales. Sorry - but that is how I feel.
I don't care if that is what you believe - just please start bringing ACTUAL science into your arguments instead of relying on the bible. [edit] made it through your post- you sort of answered YOUR feelings on why man might have lived a long time. I might like to point out though that that is based on NO scientific evidence whatsoever.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 07-05-2003 at 01:55 PM. |
07-05-2003, 02:16 PM | #44 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
Thus I would prefer to simply leave the Bible passage without a scientific explanation, at this time. But let me remind you of this: simply because something is outside of your personal experience and understanding at the present time does not mean it doesn't exist, or can't be true. Quote:
|
|||
07-05-2003, 02:17 PM | #45 | ||||||
Radically Tolkienited
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+><
Posts: 967
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah the other end of the story isn't as pleasant, because it deals with the punishment for sin, but that's where Jesus comes in. Evolution btw is the belief that everything came out of nothing by chance, and that as time progresses everything evolves into something better. That's a simplified version, but hey I'm not a dictionary. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think I covered at least a little something from everyone. As far as E=MC2 is concerned...isn't it just a theory? I ask that because I'm not just testing you. Cheers, Sam ps. if I didn't cover everyone forgive me please. I'd probably have run out of room.
__________________
Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA... |
||||||
07-05-2003, 02:43 PM | #46 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Do you know NOTHING of the origin of languages and how they evolve and change? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||||||||
07-05-2003, 02:45 PM | #47 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
07-05-2003, 02:54 PM | #48 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
|
|
07-05-2003, 03:40 PM | #49 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
So far absolutely no scientific evidence on this topic........ *yawn*
Thanks for another good laugh Samwise
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
07-05-2003, 04:56 PM | #50 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
thanks for another good laugh,HOBBIT......
__________________
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost 'So choose today whom you will serve..as for me and my family we wil serve the Lord.' " Now if you were a hot dog,and you were starving,would ya eat yourself? I know I would! First I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish..I'd be so delicious!" It's pronounced 'Hether', not 'Heether', biznotch! |
07-05-2003, 05:03 PM | #51 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
07-05-2003, 05:08 PM | #52 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
yo jersey,
I don't want to get into it with you again,but the bible has been proven true,and has been around MUCH longer than the evolution theory,though I know that doesn't matter,at least to you.It was written by many people of different backgrounds,while the evolution theory was mainly created by one man's idea. but,don't look to me on this........you already know that anywayLOL......rian has got the better info,so don't start on it like in the evolution in schools thread.... have a nice weekend, ~Giroth
__________________
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost 'So choose today whom you will serve..as for me and my family we wil serve the Lord.' " Now if you were a hot dog,and you were starving,would ya eat yourself? I know I would! First I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish..I'd be so delicious!" It's pronounced 'Hether', not 'Heether', biznotch! |
07-05-2003, 05:15 PM | #53 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
*nerg... disturbing me with pointless posts.*
What is the creationst explaination for the distribution and diversity of species after the flood? Kangaroos in Australia, monkeys in South America, bison in North America. Did Noah navigate the world distributing all the creatures? Surely you don't support the macro-evolutionary change of marsupials from something else? Or is it going to be rapid plate tectonics, with continents zipping around the globe? It would be nice if our thread starter would determine a series of topics to work through instead of the dumptruck approach to topic introduction (*cough* LE *cough*). (And I was being polite as a different kind of truck also came to mind) And Giroth... do you have anything to add? At least Samwise is bothering to make stuff up to discuss.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
07-05-2003, 05:18 PM | #54 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You cling to much to the bible me thinks.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||||
07-05-2003, 05:21 PM | #55 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
I am purely observing.
I don't feel like explaining my thoughts to you again,even though I could easily start giving out reasons for the things you mentioned in your last post.But I WON'T........why bother anyway. jersey, I won't bother with you,Master Quote......you are as stubborn as me. but you don't understand christianity,methinks.....a true christian also believes in the bible.so can't possibly see what I'm coming from. so back off,dawg.......... I just wanted to see what all you people were saying........ but giroth just poked her head in, and now she's part of the fight,I suppose.....heheheheh ~Giroth
__________________
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost 'So choose today whom you will serve..as for me and my family we wil serve the Lord.' " Now if you were a hot dog,and you were starving,would ya eat yourself? I know I would! First I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish..I'd be so delicious!" It's pronounced 'Hether', not 'Heether', biznotch! Last edited by Giroth : 07-05-2003 at 05:24 PM. |
07-05-2003, 05:29 PM | #56 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Quote:
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
|
07-05-2003, 05:37 PM | #57 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
you don't get it......I didn't mean a REAL fight...........I was just making a comparison.
I am not nearly in the mood for debating,at least not THIS kind of debate,where my ideas and thoughts are laughed at and disrespected.......it's uneven here. think of it this way;the world came to be, and some people think it has to do with evolutionism,and some think creationsim. Both have their own evidence,as well as disagreements, in their ideas.because I disagree with you or these other evolutionists doesn't make ME wrong,nor does your disagreeing with me make YOU wrong. as for putting up or getting out, I think I'll get out soon.It's like staying in a fight even when your outnumbered;your gonna get hurt.....if you know what I mean. Good day, ~Giroth
__________________
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost 'So choose today whom you will serve..as for me and my family we wil serve the Lord.' " Now if you were a hot dog,and you were starving,would ya eat yourself? I know I would! First I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish..I'd be so delicious!" It's pronounced 'Hether', not 'Heether', biznotch! |
07-05-2003, 05:54 PM | #58 |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 3,891
|
Some things are true whether you believe it or not.
I don't think you can discuss science if you have poor knowledge of it. Like evolution. If you haven't studied the theory of evolution enough, it's easy to say that it's all wrong and give arguments for your cause. But how can you determine if your arguments are correct if you lack the basic knowledge of it? I've not read the Bible so I can't really make an opinion of whether God was right or wrong to flood the world for 40 days and nights or if Abraham was good or evil when he was willing to sacrifice his own son to God. This is not my "field of expertise" so I don't come with crazy arguments about it. But I'm quite good at science, i.e. geography, linguistics, evolution etc. I've entered deeply into my studies for many years, and will for many years yet to come. I can recognize good scientific arguments about the creation of the world or the origin of species when I see them. And lots of the creationists' arguments are bad, if not completely wrong. Some arguments may seem scientific and it might be hard to say they're not, but if you let a specialist scratch a little on the surface on the arguments, he'd be able to say if the arguments're right or wrong quite fast. Some things are true whether you believe it or not. The Earth is, contradictory to the beliefs of many people, millions and millions of years old according to real science. Animals evolve and new species arise. Languages also arise and evolve. These are facts and whether or not God created the Earth, animals and languages, the facts are still practicable. Gods creations are old and changeable. You can always believe in God, but unless you want to deny scientific facts, you shouldn't come with quasi-scientific myths which state something untrue.
__________________
An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
07-05-2003, 06:01 PM | #59 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
The real problem creationists have with that faith vs atheist evolution is that many christians don't believe in the literal interpretation of the bible and do accept evolution, some even going as far as theistic evolution. I think it is a weakness of faith to fear the possibility that the bible is incapable of describing the logically complex idea a universal creator god would actually be. It's just putting man-made limitations on god. The bible was written by men who didn't have a word for "million". They lacked the knowledge to understand what would be needed to comprehend any adaquetely detailed description of a creation event.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
07-05-2003, 06:09 PM | #60 |
The Dragonqueen
Join Date: May 2002
Location: sunny Cali!
Posts: 423
|
I have read about evolution a little.I don't buy it,but that's me.
and cirdan,the bible WAS written long ago.....of course they didn't have a word for million........that was hundreds of years ago,for crying out loud.It doesn't make them stupid. I don't base my entire life on it,so you know.Just one of those things that come up when the topic comes up.I'm no bible thumper.*sigh I am not coming up with something untrue;give me some respect,guys.perhaps our beliefs are somewhat linked;god created the world and such through evolution,I don't know. some things are true about MY beliefs as well,Jon,even if you disagree with them. I like to think I have more to learn in life,no matter how old I get or how smart I may get in the future.I'm 14, dawg;I got more to learn.But I suppose you COULD just look at everything as that you know how it is,and what you believe is nothing but true.but will a person learn anything if they think they already know all about it?at least I'll listen to your arguments for evolutionism;most aren't good in MY opinion either. well,I'm outta here.No more replying in this thread,no matter what names you call me, how you insult me,or any questions you ask.It's completely useless.why do I bother,or have I ever bothered?I'm completely outnumbered. I respect your thoughts,so please do so in return for me.I'll just hover back on over to the anything post,entertainment forum,and all that other jazz,like I always do See you all later. Have a nice day, ~Giroth
__________________
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost 'So choose today whom you will serve..as for me and my family we wil serve the Lord.' " Now if you were a hot dog,and you were starving,would ya eat yourself? I know I would! First I'd smother myself in brown mustard and relish..I'd be so delicious!" It's pronounced 'Hether', not 'Heether', biznotch! Last edited by Giroth : 07-05-2003 at 06:13 PM. |