Aragorn and Arwen, incest? - Page 3

Attalus · 01-19-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Renille
What I was wondering is...isn't Aragorn marrying someone virtually thousands of years older than himself? When you think about it, he's marrying a pretty old lady. It's strange.

To quote the unfortunately late Robert A heinlein, "Who cares how old Helen of Troy is?"

congressmn · 01-19-2003, 03:09 PM

this is all too funny.
but really marying one's own grand-grand mother is quite a nasty thought.
But then I wudnt mind marying Arwen ne day.

Coney · 01-19-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DÃºnedain
No, Aragorn wasn't king of both elves and men, it was his son Eldarion that was king of both...

Also, it's incest not insect lol

Actually that was pretty accurate.........considering what I was drinking last night

*Never trust a drunken rabbit with the facts*

cassiopeia · 01-20-2003, 12:15 AM

You know, this thread is a bit silly. Aragorn and Arwen are separated by thousands of years and many, many ancestors (on Aragorns side). Incest means (from the online dictionary): sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that they are forbidden by law to marry.
Now, what about Turin and Nienor?

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-20-2003, 12:57 AM

Ach, a tragic tale indeed.

congressmn · 01-21-2003, 01:51 PM

Wonder wht Tolkien was thinking, when he made this tale about these two.
hmm.tantalizing.

Elfhelm · 01-21-2003, 02:18 PM

What was he thinking? hmmm.. they both have talismans linking them to Beren and Luthien, so maybe he was letting the romance he imagined in the trenches 30 years earlier have a new life in a new couple.

Wayfarer · 01-21-2003, 03:45 PM

Actually there is something like a 1:72 chance that any two elves will be related, since they come from the same original population.

Elfhelm · 01-21-2003, 04:05 PM

But the chances are even closer for half-elves and the descendants of half-elves who chose mortality.

Millane · 01-21-2003, 11:50 PM

would there have been many elves left in M-e that would want or ackknowledge a king?? or was that just purely a title for Eldarion

Wayfarer · 01-22-2003, 01:03 AM

Well, the wood elves had a king.

However, elves hadn't had a high king since Gil-Galad in the second age.

Elvellyn · 02-04-2003, 10:47 PM

Elves are perfect.
they have no bad genes
how could there be genetic problems?

Narsil's Master · 02-07-2003, 08:41 PM

well aragorn is human and arwen is an elf so to my knowledge they arent related.

Wayfarer · 02-07-2003, 08:46 PM

Can I HIT him? Just this once?

*/holds big wizard staff at ready.

***azalea*** · 02-07-2003, 10:24 PM

No! It hurt when you staff-bapped me over in the Hobbit forum! *rubs head in rememberance*
Just kindly and gently tell him to read the whole thread so that he can see why they are related, and hopefully he will then understand. (oh, wait, I guess I just told him.

)

(edit: save your hitting for a really egregious offense, like mixing up the forums)

Diamond · 02-09-2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Well, the wood elves had a king.

Didn't know we had a king. [/Monty Python]

Middle Earth also wouldn't have the modern connotation of "incest". Although after looking over this thread, I would not count it as such.

Di

Wayfarer · 02-09-2003, 07:28 PM

But they DID have a modern connotation of incest. It's just that being twenty generations removed doesn't count.

Gwaimir Windgem · 02-09-2003, 11:12 PM

I think it's actually closer to sixty generations.

Radagast The Brown · 02-11-2003, 04:49 PM

Yes, it's more closer to sixty generations. (I don't think it's an incest.... 60 generations!! )

Ulmo · 02-11-2003, 05:49 PM

Someone said the elves hadn't had a king since Gil-galad at the end of the Second Age. Wrong.

The Noldor hadn't had a king of their own for that long, but the Eldar all way 'round were a different story. The Sindar of Beleriand had not had a king since Dior EluchÃ*l in 505 FA - a few went to Middle-earth and established their own kingdoms. LÃ³rien had kings (Amroth, AmdÃ*r); Thranduil was the Elvenking of Mirkwood. If no other ruler, every elf was under the kingship of IngwÃ«, High King of ALL Eldar.

Back to the topic:

Galadriel and Celeborn were closer relation than Arwen and Aragorn. Far closer. They were second cousins. However, anything past first cousins is not incest.

Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and EÃ¤rwen. EÃ¤rwen was OlwÃ«'s daughter.

Celeborn was the son of Galadhon, son of Elmo.

Elmo (Celeborn's grandfather) and OlwÃ« (Galadriel's grandfather) were brothers.

Still, not incest.

01-20-2003, 12:15 AM	#44
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	You know, this thread is a bit silly. Aragorn and Arwen are separated by thousands of years and many, many ancestors (on Aragorns side). Incest means (from the online dictionary): sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that they are forbidden by law to marry. Now, what about Turin and Nienor? __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

01-20-2003, 12:57 AM	#45
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Ach, a tragic tale indeed. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

01-21-2003, 02:18 PM	#47
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	What was he thinking? hmmm.. they both have talismans linking them to Beren and Luthien, so maybe he was letting the romance he imagined in the trenches 30 years earlier have a new life in a new couple. __________________ cya

01-21-2003, 03:45 PM	#48
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Actually there is something like a 1:72 chance that any two elves will be related, since they come from the same original population. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-21-2003, 04:05 PM	#49
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	But the chances are even closer for half-elves and the descendants of half-elves who chose mortality. __________________ cya

01-19-2003, 03:09 PM	#42
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	this is all too funny. but really marying one's own grand-grand mother is quite a nasty thought. But then I wudnt mind marying Arwen ne day.

01-21-2003, 01:51 PM	#46
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	Wonder wht Tolkien was thinking, when he made this tale about these two. hmm.tantalizing.

01-21-2003, 11:50 PM	#50
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	would there have been many elves left in M-e that would want or ackknowledge a king?? or was that just purely a title for Eldarion __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, Last edited by Millane : 01-21-2003 at 11:52 PM.

01-22-2003, 01:03 AM	#51
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Well, the wood elves had a king. However, elves hadn't had a high king since Gil-Galad in the second age. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

02-04-2003, 10:47 PM	#52
Elvellyn The Redneck Elf Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In a house Posts: 539	Elves are perfect. they have no bad genes how could there be genetic problems? __________________ Oliphants make great pets.

02-07-2003, 08:41 PM	#53
Narsil's Master Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Indian,USA Posts: 109	well aragorn is human and arwen is an elf so to my knowledge they arent related. __________________ naur an edraith amen, naur dan i ngaurhoth! well your on fire now. go team fencing!!!! fingolfin rox elven sox

02-07-2003, 08:46 PM	#54
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Can I HIT him? Just this once? */holds big wizard staff at ready. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

02-07-2003, 10:24 PM	#55
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	No! It hurt when you staff-bapped me over in the Hobbit forum! rubs head in rememberance Just kindly and gently tell him to read the whole thread so that he can see why they are related, and hopefully he will then understand. (oh, wait, I guess I just told him. ) (edit: save your hitting for a really egregious offense, like mixing up the forums)

02-09-2003, 07:28 PM	#57
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	But they DID have a modern connotation of incest. It's just that being twenty generations removed doesn't count. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

02-09-2003, 11:12 PM	#58
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I think it's actually closer to sixty generations. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-11-2003, 04:49 PM	#59
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Yes, it's more closer to sixty generations. (I don't think it's an incest.... 60 generations!! ) __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-11-2003, 05:49 PM	#60
Ulmo Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 76	Someone said the elves hadn't had a king since Gil-galad at the end of the Second Age. Wrong. The Noldor hadn't had a king of their own for that long, but the Eldar all way 'round were a different story. The Sindar of Beleriand had not had a king since Dior EluchÃl in 505 FA - a few went to Middle-earth and established their own kingdoms. LÃ³rien had kings (Amroth, AmdÃr); Thranduil was the Elvenking of Mirkwood. If no other ruler, every elf was under the kingship of IngwÃ«, High King of ALL Eldar. Back to the topic: Galadriel and Celeborn were closer relation than Arwen and Aragorn. Far closer. They were second cousins. However, anything past first cousins is not incest. Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and EÃ¤rwen. EÃ¤rwen was OlwÃ«'s daughter. Celeborn was the son of Galadhon, son of Elmo. Elmo (Celeborn's grandfather) and OlwÃ« (Galadriel's grandfather) were brothers. Still, not incest. __________________ 'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

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