05-25-2002, 02:43 PM | #41 |
Elven Warrior
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what was Beren ?
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If envy were an illness the whole world would be sick (old Danish proverb) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Then Thorondor bore up Glorfindel's body out of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound of stones beside the pass; and a green turf came there, and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone, until the world was changed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh Potter you Rotter, Oh what have you done Your killing off the students, you think it's good fun |
05-25-2002, 02:55 PM | #42 |
Elf Lord
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He was a Man, a human-being, if that's what you're asking.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
05-25-2002, 04:37 PM | #43 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Beren was a Man of the Edain that fell in love with one of the greatest Elves to ever live. Luthien.
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05-25-2002, 05:20 PM | #44 |
The Insufferable
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Not just a man, he was the most fortunate man ever to walk on the face of the earth...
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
05-25-2002, 10:49 PM | #45 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Luthein was 1/2 calaquendi and 1/2 maia
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-26-2002, 03:06 PM | #46 |
Elf Lord
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He was the son of Barahir. His son was Dior(spell mistake, sorry):1/4 Maia, 1/4 elf and 1/2 human.
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05-27-2002, 07:10 AM | #47 |
Elven Warrior
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But didn't Beren Go to Mandos when He died the first time?
dosen't it say something like "And then TÃ*nuveil (might be spelt wrong) went to (not exactly what the book said) the hall's of Mandos to plea for Beren..." (In the book of lost tales 2) But of course I might be wrong I am very confused
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If envy were an illness the whole world would be sick (old Danish proverb) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Then Thorondor bore up Glorfindel's body out of the abyss, and they buried him in a mound of stones beside the pass; and a green turf came there, and yellow flowers bloomed upon it amid the barrenness of stone, until the world was changed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh Potter you Rotter, Oh what have you done Your killing off the students, you think it's good fun |
05-27-2002, 10:54 AM | #48 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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As for Beren going to Mandos, I think that the Elves speculated that Men also go to Mandos, but their place of awaiting is not that of the Elves. |
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05-27-2002, 11:56 AM | #49 |
Númenorean
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just to let you know..lost tales two is extremely different in some spots. Like Beren is an elf. Huan fought tevildo(sp?).
read over "Of Beren and Lúthien" in The Silmarillion a couple more times and youll get..hmm whats the word..unconfused?
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05-27-2002, 01:37 PM | #50 | |
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05-27-2002, 06:38 PM | #51 | |
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As a matter of fact, the only lucky people are the people not mentioned in the histories. That one guy that lives his quiet boring life as a farmer, gets married and has lots of unimportant babies before dying of old age, that guy was lucky.
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Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 05-27-2002 at 06:39 PM. |
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05-27-2002, 07:25 PM | #52 |
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So would you say, Nolendil, that the 'gift of death' is lucky, then, and that you would choose that?
I have often thought about this question, and I do believe that death could indeed be considered a gift, but it's hard. There comes a point, I'm sure, when the world just gets too...old. And that's the point when one would be glad of that gift (I guess there is never anything about elves taking their own lives? No, wouldn't make any sense. . .) But I think over all I would choose not to have the 'gift of death.'
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
05-27-2002, 07:53 PM | #53 | |
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05-27-2002, 07:56 PM | #54 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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Thanks for pointing that out--I haven't gotten very far in the Silmarillion yet, I am afraid
And I guess I didn't think about the choice to die of grief, like Arwen and Luthien. It is understandable that death would become tainted when people start going around killing each other, but I suppose that started before men, right?
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
05-27-2002, 08:01 PM | #55 | |
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05-27-2002, 08:09 PM | #56 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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That makes sense then. . .maybe I should go read the Sil. for myself, sooner, rather than learning all this here.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
05-27-2002, 08:12 PM | #57 | |
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05-27-2002, 08:44 PM | #58 | |
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Why can we not be sober.. |
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05-28-2002, 12:26 AM | #59 | |
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I am putting it this way: imagine a world without evil. It is not easy to do, but vaguely, imagine a world where absolutely nothing is wrong. Now imagine you live in this utopian world, but that eventually, when it is time, say in 500 years, you die of old age, painlessly. Imagine lying down to rest and never getting up again. Then you go to an even better place, where your creator is. That's the vision untainted. Now imagine a world with evil. It is not difficult, look around you and see the suffering. Or open the Lord of the Rings and read the suffering that is written there. It is not a utopia, there is evil and suffering. People don't live that long. And yet death, given by the One, and that better place, remain. That's the philosophy (in my opinion) behind Tolkien's mythology (or legendarium as he called it). The world has been marred by Melkor, but it was not made by him and neither was death. Death belongs and no one would have any reason to fear it, were it not for Melkor. That is not to say that death should be feared. Take me. I may fear being (say) mauled by a gigantic bear in the woods near his cave where his hungry cubs are, away from human civilization, but I'll be okay after they've ripped me up into little pieces and digested me. I'm just saying. You know I think flies come from Morgoth. Just thought I'd share.
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Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 05-28-2002 at 12:36 AM. |
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06-26-2002, 12:44 AM | #60 | |
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Then we looked and lo! he was clad in raiment that shone like silver and gold, and he had a crown on his head, and gems in his hair. 'If ye wish to be like me,' he said, 'I will teach you.' then we took him as teacher." This mysterious character is Morgoth among Men. Morgoth gave them gifts and they soon became dependent on him. He made them build a him a house where they should worship him. Men had heard the thoughts of Eru and they spoke to morgoth telling them of the voice. He said it was the voice of the night and wanted to devour them. "Then in fear we spoke as he commanded, saying: 'Thou art the Lord; Thee only one we will serve. The Voice we abjure and will not hearken to it again.' 'So be it!' he said. 'Now build me a house upon a high place, and call it the House of the Lord. Thither I will come when I will. there ye shall call on Me and make your petitions to Me!' .. Ever after we went in great dread of the Dark; but he seldom appeared among us again in fair form, and he brought few gifts. If at great need we dared to go to the house and pray to him to help us, we heard his voice, and recieved his commands. But now he would always command us to do some deed, or to give him some gift, before he would listen to our prayer; and ever the deeds became worse, and the gifts harder to give up." Men worshipped him out of fear. "The first Voice we never heard again, save once. In the stillness of night It spoke, saying : 'ye have abjured Me, but ye remain Mine. I gave you life. Now it shall be shortened, and each of you in a little while shall come to Me, to learn who is your Lord: the one ye worship, or I who made him.' "
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Why can we not be sober.. |
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