08-27-2004, 03:53 AM | #41 |
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I have learned from Tolkien that a lot of it depends upon the wording of the prophecy or command. It is kind of funny how many circumstances of that there are.
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08-27-2004, 03:54 AM | #42 |
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Guys, guys.... The blade that merry used to take out the witchking's knee wasn't a normal blade. It was a special blade that could be used to un-knit the spells that bound the witchking (remember, they were found in the barrow, and given to the hobbits by Tom Bombadil), thus leaving the witchking vulnerable to eowyns normal sword.
Did you find the quote in the prologue regarding hobbits being related to men?
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08-27-2004, 03:54 AM | #43 |
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Yeah he was clever with words like that.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 04:13 AM | #44 |
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No Ihavent didnt no I was supposed to. But I just read it yesterday and I remember it saying nothing having to do with men and hobbits being related.
But maybe I missed something. And Merry and Pippen kind of tag teamed the witch king so in a way they both killed him and I dont think the blade ah dmuch to do with it. I remember the sword beign magical but I dont thinkit could unknit the magic. BEsides Prophecys are always true but they dont alwasy mean what you think.
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08-27-2004, 04:31 AM | #45 |
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Hmmm... bloody 'ell. If yer gonna post en-mass in the thread, at least try and do a little research as well, from time to time?
From prologue: It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours : far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did. But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered.It then goes on to say that the origin of hobbits is problematic. Tolkien (elsewhere?) postulates that they are a sub-branch off Men. Merry and Eowyn brought down the Witchking. Pippin wasn't anywhere in sight. Out of the wreck rose a Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Her shield was shivered in many pieces, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
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08-27-2004, 04:34 AM | #46 |
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Yeah Merrys sword was one of the Westernesse (Numenor) and Pippins blade of the same make the writing blazed like a fire at the Black Gate.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 04:35 AM | #47 |
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I have a rpoblem with typing too fast sorry about adding on Pippen. But still they were considered an off branch and therefore different then the race of men and therefore not men. So the prophecy could still say no man and mean Merry
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08-27-2004, 04:40 AM | #48 |
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Do you think that aplied to all Nazgûl?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 04:41 AM | #49 |
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Hobbits were OF the race of Men. That is what the quote from the prologue states. You can't argue with it, because that is what Tolkien says. Whilst their origins are obscure, and they're considered an off-shoot off Men, they're NOT a separate species, and consequently, are considered of the race of men.
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08-27-2004, 04:43 AM | #50 |
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Yeah but as Tolkien said they are an offbranch and that means to me that eventually you waould have to consider them a seperate species and I think that by the time of the third age you could suffiecntly call them seperate species.
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08-27-2004, 04:46 AM | #51 |
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Do you think that the prophercy aplied to all Nazgûl?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 04:47 AM | #52 |
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I dont kniw but I dont think so. Also another question. When the witch king was killed who took over for the battle before the Black Gate?
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08-27-2004, 04:48 AM | #53 |
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I dont kniw but I dont think so. Also another question. When the witch king was killed who took over for the battle before the Black Gate?
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08-27-2004, 04:48 AM | #54 |
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I dont kniw but I dont think so. Also another question. When the witch king was killed who took over for the battle before the Black Gate?
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08-27-2004, 04:48 AM | #55 | |
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Quote:
[letter no. 131, footnote number 2] The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves) - hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and Little Folk. They are entirely without non-human powers, but are represented as being more in touch with 'nature' (the soil and other living things, plants and animals), and abnormally, for humans, free from ambition or greed of wealth. They are made small (little more than half human stature, but dwindling as the years pass) partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain unimaginative parochial man ... etc, etc.Hobbits are Men.
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08-27-2004, 04:51 AM | #56 |
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Khamûl took over as he was second in command. He was the Lieutenant(sp.) of Dol Guldur
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 04:53 AM | #57 |
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If you're going to further discuss the take-down of the witchking, you should either start another thread, or find the appropriate thread to discuss the matter. This thread should deal specifically with the nature of Ferny, hobbits, and men.
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08-27-2004, 04:58 AM | #58 |
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okily dokily
so back to hobbits or men I still think that technically Ferny could be a hobbit. BEcasue he was male and thanks to BoP's help hobbits could be considered men. so its all a matter of what TOlkien meant by man at that point in time.
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08-27-2004, 06:05 AM | #59 | |
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Quote:
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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08-27-2004, 06:20 AM | #60 |
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yeah but when it refers to men it could technically according to some mean that he is a male hobbit. So he could technically still be a hobbit. but I think he is a man. Im just playing devil's advocate
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