04-24-2002, 01:48 PM | #41 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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Quite honestly, the U.S. healthcare system isn't working, either. Neither system is perfect. We had to pay a lot when my son was born even though we have health ins. We had to put it all on credit cards. I'm sure a lot of you have heard the story recently of the man who needs a heart transplant but his ins. doesn't cover it, and he can't afford to pay, so when a heart became available an inmate in prison for armed robbery got the heart, because inmates are covered by the state health plan or whatever. The man said he contemplates commiting armed robbery so he can go to prison and get his transplant paid for! Private healthcare is very inadequate because of what many ins. co.s won't cover, and those people who make too much money for Medicaid and not enough to get the very best plans or pay for care themselves are out of luck.
I like the Canadian plan of EQUAL healthcare for EVERYONE, but I think private companies are a necessity, because the gov can't afford to pay doctors what they can make in a privatized system. A combination of the 2 systems could work well. I think EVERYONE should have the option to be a part of the state health plan (the one that is for gov. employees, like our representatives), because you'd better believe that's a good plan! They would also have the option to go w/ their company's plan. That would force the other companies to provide better coverage. |
04-24-2002, 02:04 PM | #42 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Yeah - and what would our taxes be to pay for such a system? And how much bearacracy would it create? Look at HMOs as an example - they're a bunch of suits that decide what medical attention you need, many times over riding the doctors. Is this more of what we want? My taxes are high enough - and they're wasted on special interest projects.
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04-24-2002, 04:00 PM | #43 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
Perhaps, if less money was spent on making war, then there'd be more for basic necessities, like healthcare.
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04-24-2002, 06:53 PM | #44 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Quote:
We were mostly an isolationist country until Europe got us into 2 world wars within 20 years. After Wrold War I we destroyed most of our military hardware - sunk it and melted it down. Less than 20 years later we had to mobilize again and build it up to save Europe again from itself. We got dragged into Bosnia - because Europe felt the US should get involved. We got dragged into Solmalia because of the UN (which I think we should leave). We got involved with Vietnam because of France. The US only gets 5% of it's oil from the Middle East (our oil is either domestic or comes from South America) - yet everyone says that we fought Iraq for our oil. Europe gets about 50% of it's oil from the Middle East and Japan gets 70% of it's oil from them. It would be very nice if the US just went into isolation again - except when we don't do anything - then the rest of the world's attitude is "where is the United States, why don't they do something?" when we do get involved - it's "what are they doing in there?" And currently - we have an ABSOLUTE right to be in Afganistan after what happened on 9/11. Aslo - irregardless of whether you have national healthcare or not - NO ONE in the US is turned away from receiving medical attention. Also - everyone - including ILLEGAL aliens get a "free" education. California is going bankrupt because everyone gets all this "free" stuff and half the people don't pay taxes. Have any of you ever actually been to the US? Like I said, my friend in Canada - her friends hold the same stereotypes - and she's constantly trying to set them right.
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04-24-2002, 07:44 PM | #45 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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By "state plan" I didn't mean a gov't run system, I meant the private health plan that is offered to gov't employees, such as Blue Cross Blue Sheild. Technically I think anyone CAN buy that insurance, but you'd have to pay a VERY high premium. I think we should all be able to choose to be a member of that group plan, as an alternate choice for those of us whose employers offer a pitiful plan, and who can't afford to buy ins. outside of a group plan. Another situation that comes to mind is people who are self-employed/ small business owners and their employees.
And certainly basic emergency services are not denied, but as I said, if you're not on Medicare/aid, you are not entitled to major lifesaving medical care that is NOT covered by your health plan, and not everyone qualifies for Medicaid. In other words, the situation in John Q COULD happen, where his son was going to die because his ins. didn't cover transplants. |
04-24-2002, 07:50 PM | #46 |
The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas).
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Like it or not, the US has become the world's policeman. I don't see that there's a whole lot we can do about the situation. *sigh* You're right, JD, we're the scapegoat for being involved, and the scapegoat if we refuse to get involved. Talk about your lose/lose situations.
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04-25-2002, 05:06 PM | #47 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 479
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As for healthcare, I've had to think about this alot and all I can see is that you can't have a system where everyone regardless of financial status can have the best healthcare. It costs too much. Every country ends up sacrificing something. In our case, everyone gets access to care, but the quality can suffer, depending on the resources available. And something else that suffers is choice, I think. In BC, they've been slashing services left, right and centre. I can guarantee there will be problems with this, especially when the effects of limiting ability for early detection and early treatment starts to cost more due to things not being taken care of until too late. sigh...there's really no way to win this one. In the US, there are access problems (e.g. JD's friend is less likely to get an MRI even if he needs one. Whereas my mother got her MRI because her doctor said she needed one, and that was that. But you have a wait a while for it.) Don't even get me started on Hong Kong. It's a mess over there.
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04-26-2002, 03:15 PM | #48 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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Without public health care I'd be dead or at least bankrupt. Go OHIP go! I'd rather pay higher taxes and live in a secure society then be rich in a chaotic one. Proves I'm Canadian eh?
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04-26-2002, 06:55 PM | #49 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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If you say so.
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04-27-2002, 02:36 AM | #50 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Quote:
What extra benefits don't they get that we do? as far as lower taxes ontario has GST and PST in addition to income in Quebec taxes were 50% as far as NOBODY being turned away is not the same as everyone gets the best care available. i am NOT saying they do in Canada. I believe HMO's can dictate what tests can and can not be done. Can someone who has the time post some REAL info of the healthcare systems in the World. I'll see if i can find it again but the US is considered to have the best EMERGENCY care in the world but not necessarily the best total system
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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04-27-2002, 02:45 AM | #51 |
Hoplite Nomad
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PS
were did you get the info about USA get only 5% from the Middle East
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
04-27-2002, 03:54 AM | #52 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 479
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If you notice, he is stating figures for how much of a country's oil comes from the middle east, not how much of the middle east's oil is going to that country. For example, Japan has no natural oil reserves, so of course they have to get 100% of their oil from somewhere else. Contrast that to the US, which does have their own oil supplies, plus some closer places (ummm...Alberta, comes to mind, being relatively close. I don't know how much they would get from places like that, but I'd imagine the shipping would be cheaper) where they could get oil, but it is a much larger and energy consuming nation. The figures cited say nothing about the actual amount of oil that the US gets from there, or what percentage of middle east oil goes there. So the 5% figure is not very helpful. I suspect it's a bit misleading, for that reason. Be very careful evaluating what the statistics are actually able to tell you.
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04-27-2002, 05:21 AM | #53 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Merry old England
Posts: 413
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I am not Canadian but I sympathise with Candians and how they are so maligned. Examples:
Canadians are 1% of the world's population and yet have 10% of the worlds peacekeeping force. Candians fought extremely bravely in numerous incidents in WW1 and WW2 in which hundreds of thousands of them died (maybe more). Also a good example of Bush's arrogance and ignorance toward Canada was the very recent military blunder in Afghanistan were an American pilot BLEW UP a platoon of Candian soldiers killing four and wounding ten! And guess what? The American media either did not even mention this or they just stuffed it into the last line of an article, preferring instead the "feel good story of the US Marines coming home to their family". Bush did not even express regret, the arrogant man did not even make a formal press conference, canadian reporters had to hound him to even get an interview about it! This is appalling.
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Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Last edited by Radagast : 08-23-2004 at 12:16 PM. |
04-27-2002, 07:32 AM | #54 | ||||||
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Quote:
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First of all your figures are WAY off. To make it easy 6 billion people in the world using your figures there's 60 million people in canada there are just over 31 million people in canada canada has a little over 200,000 military personel Personel does not mean fighters that means ALL the people in the military you say that canada supplies 10% of the peace keeping forces that is also VERY wrong As of 31 October 2000, 89 countries are contributors of almost 38,000 military and civilian police personnel. Of this number, the top five are: India, 4,460; Nigeria, 3,441; Jordan, 3,400; Bangladesh, 2,394; Ghana, 1,894. Quote:
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That story was all over the news Quote:
I watched him give his regrets on tv. Radagast your info is amazingly faulty and nothing but US bashing without any basis of factual info OOPS my own replies are mixed in the above quotes so please read the above to see them SORRY Edited by the masked avenger: hey Aelf, i edited your post to make it readable...i fixed it. I agree with you too! go Aelf!
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 04-27-2002 at 07:35 AM. |
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04-27-2002, 07:37 AM | #55 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Quote:
can you make this a little more clear
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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04-27-2002, 12:17 PM | #56 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
And concerning Radagast's comments - they are lies. Our news had on a lot about the Canadians being killed. They showed video of their bodies arriving in Canada and everything. Our newspapers had about it on the front page. We our sorry that it happened - but a lot of our own soldiers have died in friendly fire. It's one of the bad things about war - people die, some innocently, some mistakenly.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-27-2002 at 12:49 PM. |
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04-27-2002, 08:34 PM | #57 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 479
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Quote:
As for Bush making a public statement about the 4 Canadians in that accident, yes, he did make a public statement, but it was at least 2 days after the fact. I remember because I was scratching my head wondering why the USA side was being so quiet about the whole thing, and it wasn't until AFTER people over here were getting a tad offended that anything came out (i.e. so what does the US have to say? how come they're not saying anything? Bush: Oh yeah, I did express my regret (privately) to your PM. So sorry! - I forget the rest, but that was the gist of it.) So he did. He just took his own sweet time. I don't know about American newspapers, although I'd imagine they'd latch onto a disaster story like this just as normal, but the official government PR machine seems a bit slow, if anything. This can be a problem, the general feeling seems to be that we are being overlooked constantly. It makes people less happy about helping out. So those people in charge of public relations down south are going to have to pay a bit more attention to their work. It's not irreparable damage, but it does accumulate if left unattended. |
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04-27-2002, 09:07 PM | #58 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
And I really don't know what your saying concerning our oil. We only get 5% of OUR oil from the Middle East. I don't know why you don't find this figure very helpful? It seems as if your're implying that the US uses tons of oil - so 5% would be a lot. Well my point was - that we could easily get the 5% from someone else if we need to. Europe can not just turn around and get 50% of it's oil from some one else. And it would be nearly impossible for Japan to get it's oil from another source. Dont' forget - oil isn't only used in cars - but in carpeting, plastic and almost everything we use. Not to mention the transportation to ship the products.
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04-28-2002, 05:19 PM | #59 | |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
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04-28-2002, 05:45 PM | #60 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
Also - whose interest is a country supposed to look out after. The only responsiblity a country has is to IT'S OWN CITIZENS. Who do you want Canda looking after - you're intersts or a country 3,000 miles away?? The History Channel had on a quote from a European leader from World War II the other day - "Countries don't have allies - they have interests." Sorry but it's true.
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