10-22-2002, 11:31 AM | #41 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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10-22-2002, 11:41 AM | #42 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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um... go EU?
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-24-2002, 06:23 AM | #43 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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A good soup is a blending which can lead to a sum greater than its parts while still retaining each distinct flavour. Very much like the EU in fact. All we need is a peppering of good leadership and the balancing crusty bread of strong accountability. Or something. |
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10-24-2002, 06:04 PM | #44 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I had to explain to someone in Indiana the one time what the term melting pot meant. It does not mean that you lose your culture and become part of "white anglo america". But instead people take cultural items from all the different cultures that exist in America. Italians bring things, Irish, blacks, Mexians, Indians and together we share our culture among each other. Americans now celebrate Cinqo de Mayo - at least in New Jersey. We celebrate different festivals that span the globe.
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10-25-2002, 06:27 AM | #45 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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More soup! A good, strong stock supplemented with exotic ingredients. Etc. But not very Tolkien-esque though, eh? I reckon he'd've hated the EU. |
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10-25-2002, 02:05 PM | #46 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I don't know. Maybe the master would approve of a last alliance of the free races of the west.
Soup analogies... a beef vegatable is good, but a beef vegatable with a peppery spice is even better. The more ingredients the better.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-26-2002, 01:21 PM | #47 |
Elf Lord
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I too believe that he, at least, would agree with the idea, (nations putting aside their differences and working together as one), but I’m not so sure if he would agree with what and how it is being done.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
10-29-2002, 07:09 AM | #48 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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Hmmm. Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Don't you think Europe contains too many swarthy men from the South and East for his liking? It's also pretty evident that he hated bureaucracy and arbitrary regulation, which would hardly endear the EU.
Very few people here see the idealism of the EU; too many Brits just see Johnny Foreigner coming over here telling gaffers they can't buy their taters in pounds and ounces any more. I suspect JRRT might have been one of them, but am happy to be educated... |
10-29-2002, 11:42 AM | #49 |
Elf Lord
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Many men of the house of Beor were swarthy, And besides, southern Europeans are Catholic (= Faithful)
The greatest importance of the Pound, (or the Escudo for that matter), is as a national symbol. People may believe they are loosing national identity by sharing the Euro with other nations (including the French and the Germans; that may be thought for some). Frankly, people seemed to adjust easily enough to the new coin everywhere, I doubt that the Brits would have a special difficulty with it. That said what may be a reason of concern is the monetary policy established by the Central Bank. Personally it is to Neoliberal for my liking. The devotion they seem to have to budget control and inflation control seems to be beyond a healthy outlook. As for Tolkien seeing the “Eurocracy” as a problem, perhaps. But it certainly isn’t worst that the one we already have in our own countries, so…
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
10-29-2002, 12:19 PM | #50 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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He might not have liked the Turks as they were not held in high esteem in his formative years.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-29-2002, 01:10 PM | #51 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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The change over to the Euro was not only to make it easier to trade and travel between the countries within Europe - but to also be able to better compete with the US on a monetary level.
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10-29-2002, 02:03 PM | #52 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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I think the currency has been a success so far, and that the British will come round to it eventually. Last edited by Dunadan : 10-29-2002 at 02:04 PM. |
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10-29-2002, 03:11 PM | #53 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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10-29-2002, 03:43 PM | #54 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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This is an old article - Jan 2000, but it does go over some of the reasons why Britain didn't convert to the Euro and why it might become beneficial for them to do so. Quote:
Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-29-2002 at 04:07 PM. |
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10-29-2002, 06:00 PM | #55 |
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True, a strong currency can be normally associated with a strong economy. The problem is, of course “the other side of the coin,” so to speak (diminished competitiveness).
Frankly, I haven’t seen in the press any real economical argument why the Euro would have been detrimental to the British economy, this would have been true only in the worst-case scenario; the failure of the Euro. On another subject, I believe the short run “failure” of the Yen was to be expected, considering the globalisation phenomena. However I do believe that the next two decades will se a significant reduction of the role of the Dollar too, with several other currencies increasing their role in the international arena, sharing their role with the Dollar but without any of them achieving supremacy.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
10-29-2002, 07:34 PM | #56 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Diminished competiveness is a current affect of Britain not adopting the Euro. with the rest of Europe. The thing is - this will be a gradual change and will only gradually slow England economy. This is in contrast to the 180 degree turn that Britain's ecomony would have faced had they adopted the Euro while Britain was in a finacial upswing while continental Europe was growing at a much slower rate and was not as economically secure. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-29-2002 at 07:46 PM. |
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10-30-2002, 03:10 PM | #57 | ||
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The first hypothesis was never a real problem; we know who really dictates the policy of the Central Bank, it would never allow for it. The second was the “worst case scenario,” that, as we know it, didn’t occur (and was improbable to begin with), and it is becoming increasingly more improbable. On the other hand, a mild valorisation of the Pound in relation to the Euro can hurt British economy, something that should also be taken into account (and was known to be a possibility). A strong currency may actually have a break effect in a growing economy, under these circumstances. So this is why I don’t buy the argument that the Euro would have slow down the British economy at the time. Personally I believe it was mostly because of several reasons that Britain remained out: Public distrust. Politicians didn’t want to risk going against public opinion. (And respecting public opinion is commendable). Distrust. It would have been unlikely that the Euro would have hurt British economy, but British authorities have always been somewhat distrustful of the other side of the Channel. Lost of Control. Since the Euro would not be controlled solely by the British government. (However, at the same time the very weight of Euro would make it a more flexible tool that the Pound). Quote:
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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12-22-2003, 02:10 AM | #58 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I dragged this thread up because I came across this article looking at a German News site - German Times...
Quote:
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12-22-2003, 02:11 AM | #59 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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continued...
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According this article it doesn't seem like I'm the only one who thinks the EU can learn a thing or two from the US. [edit] I was just reading over my posts on page 2 from 7/16/2002 - 7/17/2002. I mention the history of the US as well as bring up the House of Representatives and the Senate. I posed the question as to whether the European Union would have a similar system of representation. BTW - This thread is right up Jonathan's alley and was way before his time here on Entmoot. I hope he'll post some things - hint hint.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-22-2003 at 02:46 AM. |
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12-22-2003, 05:16 AM | #60 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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As for the Constitution failure, many are blaming Spain and Poland as much as Germany and France for that one, or the bully tactic negotiation leadership of Mr. Berlusconi. But I'm not too worried about the European Union. There have been 'crises' like this one before. There will be a Constitution, it's just a question of time. Let's not forget that the 15 EU countries and the 10 'newbies' managed to come to an agreement about everything in a 600-page long document, except on that one point. I think that's rather a good sign.
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