drug references - Page 3

bropous · 01-03-2002, 12:50 PM

Oh, and just as an aside, it is "bropous". Pronounced, "bro-POO".

Pailan · 01-03-2002, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andustar
er OK so I got a little off-topic... what of it?

Seems like your right were this needs to go. Yes the stuff from unfinushed tales is worth a read or two.

Pailan · 01-03-2002, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Oh, and just as an aside, it is "bropous". Pronounced, "bro-POO".

So why bother with the letter "S"? Is it a French thing?

bropous · 01-04-2002, 12:11 PM

Oui, mon frere, c'est Francais. Tres bien!

[Okay, it may be sacrilege to use a Francophonic-derived name on a Tolkien discussion board, Tolkien DESPISED the French...it's just the "Cajun mountaineer" in me...].

Bon mots, bon amis, et bon moot!

Pailan · 01-04-2002, 05:25 PM

And in French pipe weed would be...?

bropous · 01-04-2002, 06:18 PM

LOL, you got me on that one, my good Enting. Moi, je ne sais pas.

Pailan · 01-05-2002, 02:46 PM

Perhaps when you become an Elven Lore Master it will come to you.

Lady Midnight · 01-07-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arwenfan
I'd just like to say to Renille, that people who take illicit substances, are as noble and good as people who don't. Also, everyone who takes drugs (even on a regular basis) is not a druggie.

Absolutely! Although it does depend to some extent on the drug. Most heroin addicts I've met would almost certainly sell their own grandmothers. Having said that one of the nicer people in my neighbourhood happens to be a heroin addict. You couldn't wish to meet a nicer guy.

Thank you for saying this.

Lady Midnight · 01-07-2002, 07:56 PM

I'd just like to point out here that sometime around the 1500s a law was passed in the UK banning people from being pipe-drunk in the streets. The reason for this was that back then their tobacco was considerably stronger than it is today. anyone who has ever smoked a cigarette will know that quite often the first one of the day can make you somewhat lightheaded. And if you chainsmoke a pack of 20 B&H then you can experience symptoms very much like being drunk. As for the term 'weed' as I understand it the word has also been used as an archaic term for tobacco.

bropous · 01-07-2002, 09:06 PM

Well, this is getting into the realm of personal trusts, but I for one would not trust a heroin junkie or coke addict as far as I could throw them. As for crack heads, I wouldn't even touch 'em to throw 'em!

But for pot heads, hey well, I have met some quite fine folks of that particular bent, and I don't have any problem with that variety of "drug addict", except for the "yeah dude" subspecies.

But, once again, in no way was Longbottom Leaf ever meant to be a reference to marijuana.

And a hearty welcome to the Moot to you, Lady Midnight, and I looove your "location"!

jerseydevil · 01-10-2002, 02:27 AM

My personal take on the matter is that Jackson knew exactly how the term weed was going to be taken. Whether you approve or disapprove of drug use - it was a reference to drug use. It annoyed me when there was clapping when Bilbo and Gandalf were smoking and the mentioned "the best weed".

Also whether he's a New Zealander or not - I would imagine that he's spent enough time in the US - let alone Hollywood - to know what using the term weed would mean to the American audience.

Pailan · 01-10-2002, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
My personal take on the matter is that Jackson knew exactly how the term weed was going to be taken. Whether you approve or disapprove of drug use - it was a reference to drug use. It annoyed me when there was clapping when Bilbo and Gandalf were smoking and the mentioned "the best weed".

Also whether he's a New Zealander or not - I would imagine that he's spent enough time in the US - let alone Hollywood - to know what using the term weed would mean to the American audience.

I tend to agree with you JD that PJ understood the implications of what Bilbo and Gandalf were saying BUT it is in Tolkien's writings and as art, weather in film or words, these things are always subject to multiple interpertations. For me, the pipe scene was areal treat.

jerseydevil · 01-10-2002, 11:45 AM

I agree that I think the pipe smoking was a big part of the book and should have been part of the movie. I do think that Jackson wanted to make a drug reference and try getting a response from it. In the book it was an innocent enjoyment. The way Bilbo and Gandalf talk in the movie - not to mention the reference that Saruman makes - leads me to think that Jackson wanted people to infer that it was more than tobacco - even though in the book it's stated plainly that it is just tobacco.

bropous · 01-10-2002, 02:57 PM

I personally loved the line "best weed in the Shire" [silence, Pailan! LOL!], and thought it was a nice touch. Screw the drug-heads, I get absolutely sick of them taking an innocent word and claiming that all usage reflects their tiny little mindset. There are weeds on the road, Sam cooks in a pot, Frodo lives at "Bag" End, etc., etc.

Just like the word "mushrooms". Only the extremely limited and underexposed mind would automatically think "psychoactive substance" when that variety of fungus is mentioned.

Next the crackheads will titter over the "Cracks of Doom". Or the heroin junkies will guffaw if the "Flotsam and Jetsam" of Isengard is referred to as "junk" or the very mention of any "horse" from Rohan. What about the coke heads? Did they fall all over themselves because Caradhras was covered with "snow" or the fact that the wind did "blow"? Did the more bodily-humor oriented people snicker over the word "wind"?

Tolkien called it pipe-weed, and not pipe-tobacco, and I think folks should be glad this was mentioned, since so much of the books didn't make it into the films.

I think it is much less the fault of the story-teller as it is the fault of the person who hears the word and automatically makes a connection which is not intended.

Don't get your nose out of "joint"!

Kevin McIntyre · 01-10-2002, 03:40 PM

In many ways the Lord of the Rings is a book of the sixties (at least here in the US). It became a mainstay of the counter-culture and has been associated with that group ever since. The wording used in the book is what is used in the movie, and I'm sure PJ was very much aware of the connotation of weed in the US.

bropous · 01-10-2002, 07:37 PM

Tolkien was positively revulsed by the drug-head embracing of his books, and I think it's good that Peter Jackson used the phrase "pipe-weed" because it reclaims the definition of the phrase from the base, addle-pated and brainless "counter-culture" that infested the world in the sixties, and which still influences far too many people in this day and age. I say good on him. He stayed true to the book, an aspect of his film on which he has been repeatedly crucified in many posts. First some folks are ticked he changed language form the books, and then when he does use actual words from the text, the mobs are screaming, "Give us Barabbas!" Yeesh.

As an aside, the books were released in the fifties, not the yippie decade.

Please forgive me if I've gotten a tad shrill in defense of my point. I'm just a bit weary of the double-standard. I say too bad for the idiots out there who automatically think "marijuana" when they hear the word "weed". Ain't the mouth which speaks the words that's doing the offending, it's the ear that hears them. And the drug-oriented fogged brain that so interprets them.

Kevin McIntyre · 01-10-2002, 09:07 PM

Yes the books were first published in the 50's. But it was not until the 60's that that sales started to take off.

Yes the sixties still does influence today's culture - Civil rights, Enivironmental conciousness (of which Tolkien played a role), and really bad fashion.

Pailan · 01-11-2002, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Tolkien was positively revulsed by the drug-head embracing of his books, and I think it's good that Peter Jackson used the phrase "pipe-weed" because it reclaims the definition of the phrase from the base, addle-pated and brainless "counter-culture" .... First some folks are ticked he changed language form the books, and then when he does use actual words from the text, the mobs are screaming, "Give us Barabbas!" Yeesh.

Amen, mon ami.
All too often it's the reaction to other peoples interpertations that sets the tone for the discussion. (Uh, yeah, I think that's what I wanted to say.)

And I fully expect to see more pipe action in the next two installments. Thank you very much.

bropous · 01-11-2002, 11:48 AM

Well heck yeah, Pailan, I'm looking forward to the "Flotsam and Jetsam" scene where Merry and Pippin are sitting back at the gates of Isengard, smoking pipeweed, and Gimli and Aragorn enjoy pipefuls in borrowed pipes from the furry-footed Ent-inflamers.

Pailan · 01-11-2002, 01:42 PM

And of course the return trip at the Prancing Pony where they end up with some Southlinch weed.

01-03-2002, 12:50 PM	#41
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Oh, and just as an aside, it is "bropous". Pronounced, "bro-POO". __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-04-2002, 12:11 PM	#44
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Oui, mon frere, c'est Francais. Tres bien! [Okay, it may be sacrilege to use a Francophonic-derived name on a Tolkien discussion board, Tolkien DESPISED the French...it's just the "Cajun mountaineer" in me...]. Bon mots, bon amis, et bon moot! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-04-2002, 05:25 PM	#45
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	And in French pipe weed would be...? __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

01-04-2002, 06:18 PM	#46
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	LOL, you got me on that one, my good Enting. Moi, je ne sais pas. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 02:46 PM	#47
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	Perhaps when you become an Elven Lore Master it will come to you. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

01-07-2002, 07:56 PM	#49
Lady Midnight Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: only after 11pm and in an altered state of conciousness Posts: 176	BTW I'd just like to point out here that sometime around the 1500s a law was passed in the UK banning people from being pipe-drunk in the streets. The reason for this was that back then their tobacco was considerably stronger than it is today. anyone who has ever smoked a cigarette will know that quite often the first one of the day can make you somewhat lightheaded. And if you chainsmoke a pack of 20 B&H then you can experience symptoms very much like being drunk. As for the term 'weed' as I understand it the word has also been used as an archaic term for tobacco.

01-07-2002, 09:06 PM	#50
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well, this is getting into the realm of personal trusts, but I for one would not trust a heroin junkie or coke addict as far as I could throw them. As for crack heads, I wouldn't even touch 'em to throw 'em! But for pot heads, hey well, I have met some quite fine folks of that particular bent, and I don't have any problem with that variety of "drug addict", except for the "yeah dude" subspecies. But, once again, in no way was Longbottom Leaf ever meant to be a reference to marijuana. And a hearty welcome to the Moot to you, Lady Midnight, and I looove your "location"! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-10-2002, 02:27 AM	#51
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	My personal take on the matter is that Jackson knew exactly how the term weed was going to be taken. Whether you approve or disapprove of drug use - it was a reference to drug use. It annoyed me when there was clapping when Bilbo and Gandalf were smoking and the mentioned "the best weed". Also whether he's a New Zealander or not - I would imagine that he's spent enough time in the US - let alone Hollywood - to know what using the term weed would mean to the American audience. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-10-2002, 11:45 AM	#53
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I agree that I think the pipe smoking was a big part of the book and should have been part of the movie. I do think that Jackson wanted to make a drug reference and try getting a response from it. In the book it was an innocent enjoyment. The way Bilbo and Gandalf talk in the movie - not to mention the reference that Saruman makes - leads me to think that Jackson wanted people to infer that it was more than tobacco - even though in the book it's stated plainly that it is just tobacco. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-10-2002, 02:57 PM	#54
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I personally loved the line "best weed in the Shire" [silence, Pailan! LOL!], and thought it was a nice touch. Screw the drug-heads, I get absolutely sick of them taking an innocent word and claiming that all usage reflects their tiny little mindset. There are weeds on the road, Sam cooks in a pot, Frodo lives at "Bag" End, etc., etc. Just like the word "mushrooms". Only the extremely limited and underexposed mind would automatically think "psychoactive substance" when that variety of fungus is mentioned. Next the crackheads will titter over the "Cracks of Doom". Or the heroin junkies will guffaw if the "Flotsam and Jetsam" of Isengard is referred to as "junk" or the very mention of any "horse" from Rohan. What about the coke heads? Did they fall all over themselves because Caradhras was covered with "snow" or the fact that the wind did "blow"? Did the more bodily-humor oriented people snicker over the word "wind"? Tolkien called it pipe-weed, and not pipe-tobacco, and I think folks should be glad this was mentioned, since so much of the books didn't make it into the films. I think it is much less the fault of the story-teller as it is the fault of the person who hears the word and automatically makes a connection which is not intended. Don't get your nose out of "joint"! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-10-2002, 03:40 PM	#55
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	In many ways the Lord of the Rings is a book of the sixties (at least here in the US). It became a mainstay of the counter-culture and has been associated with that group ever since. The wording used in the book is what is used in the movie, and I'm sure PJ was very much aware of the connotation of weed in the US.

01-10-2002, 07:37 PM	#56
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Tolkien was positively revulsed by the drug-head embracing of his books, and I think it's good that Peter Jackson used the phrase "pipe-weed" because it reclaims the definition of the phrase from the base, addle-pated and brainless "counter-culture" that infested the world in the sixties, and which still influences far too many people in this day and age. I say good on him. He stayed true to the book, an aspect of his film on which he has been repeatedly crucified in many posts. First some folks are ticked he changed language form the books, and then when he does use actual words from the text, the mobs are screaming, "Give us Barabbas!" Yeesh. As an aside, the books were released in the fifties, not the yippie decade. Please forgive me if I've gotten a tad shrill in defense of my point. I'm just a bit weary of the double-standard. I say too bad for the idiots out there who automatically think "marijuana" when they hear the word "weed". Ain't the mouth which speaks the words that's doing the offending, it's the ear that hears them. And the drug-oriented fogged brain that so interprets them. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-10-2002, 09:07 PM	#57
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	Yes the books were first published in the 50's. But it was not until the 60's that that sales started to take off. Yes the sixties still does influence today's culture - Civil rights, Enivironmental conciousness (of which Tolkien played a role), and really bad fashion.

01-11-2002, 11:48 AM	#59
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well heck yeah, Pailan, I'm looking forward to the "Flotsam and Jetsam" scene where Merry and Pippin are sitting back at the gates of Isengard, smoking pipeweed, and Gimli and Aragorn enjoy pipefuls in borrowed pipes from the furry-footed Ent-inflamers. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-11-2002, 01:42 PM	#60
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	And of course the return trip at the Prancing Pony where they end up with some Southlinch weed. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Silmarillion Ch 11: Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor	Maedhros	The Silmarillion Project	20	10-24-2018 03:41 PM
Gays, lesbians, bisexuals	Nurvingiel	General Messages	988	02-06-2006 01:33 PM
World Politics	Last Child of Ungoliant	General Messages	141	06-28-2005 06:51 AM