Please reply

[brownjenkins]

i understand your sentiments Val... but the question was "what turns you off about christians"

i've met many very respectful and open-minded christians myself, some on this very board

but one can not help but react to the negatives they tend to encounter... and some forms of christianity (i.e. catholicism) indoctrinate these negatives

if someone asked for negatives about muslim faith, i would certainly bring up extremism... that doesn't mean that all, or even a majority of muslims are extreme... but the particular belief system, with it's focus on the afterlife as opposed to the here and now, allows for the possibility of extremism

when asked for a negative, one responds with what they see... maybe a "what positive attributes do you find among christians" should have been added... though SamwiseLover2008 may have his reasons for not

[The Gaffer]

I'd echo those sentiments, and comment that there's also a "passive" negative experience which, for me, is stronger than the "active" (cultist nutter-type) experiences.

What I mean are people who can happily commit all manner of sins (especially greed) from Monday till Saturday then do an hour on a pew of a Sunday believing that they'll take their seat in paradise.

Related to it is the doctrine that it doesn't matter how good and holy you are, you ain't gettin' in (to heaven) unless you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Conversely, you can perpetrate all manner of badness, confess and convert on your death bed, then kick back in eternal bliss.

[Valandil]

Thank you brownjenkins, good point - and I now have it in mind in relation to those responses given (whereas I guess I first focused a bit more on the responses than the question itself - silly me! ) Great to see that you could also talk about some positives!

Gaffer - I understand those problems that you have with Christianity... but again, bad examples, and not how Christ commanded us to live. Judgement we leave in God's hands, but for my part, I see a difference between a sinful person who truly repents on his death-bed - and a person who tries to 'have it both ways' - knowing what they should do, yet planning to live life unbothered by God's will and rely on a deathbed conversion to carry them to Heaven. They just MIGHT not have things turn out the way they intend.

In the Christian understanding, btw, to 'repent' is beyond just being sorry for something... it's being sorry enough to never do it again - or at least to truly INTEND to never do it again. (EDIT - and it's hard for me to envision true 'repentance' in the latter case above... that's more like the 'sorry because I was caught' response)

[jellyfishannah]

Survey Question for Christians
Name: Hannah
Age: 15
Age that you became a Christian:
I was about 7 or 8 when I actually started understanding what it really meant...
Country and/or state/ general area- Tn, USA
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What/who lead you to Christ?

My family, I guess. I've Christian for as long as I can remember. But, I am a Christian on my own now. I'm not a Christian just because it is familiar or comfortable. Some people might think I am since I was raised Christian.


Did you grow up in a Christian church?

Yes. Many different ones. Protestant and Catholic and Anglican and Orthodox. My parents were so picky.

Did you grow up in a Christian family?

Yes.

Do you still attend Church faithfully to this day?

Faithfully? Who can say they're faithful? If you go regularly, it doesn't mean you go faithfully. These things can become like rituals. I do go at least once a week. but like I read in a book once "How can you become clean if you are only sprinkled with Water a little once a week?" Doesn't help much if you don't live it.


What do you think turns people off from Christianity?

Oh, lot's of things. Probably most things. Even if you have good friends who are Christian, they are most likely going to act exactly like everyone else.

How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel?

Well, for one thing, we should definitely not start preaching about heaven and hell right off the bat. That annoys me. I went to a play with friends the other day. It was one of those plays where there are two guys...one was a "saved" Christian and the other was his wild friend (who just happened to have a lot of wordly possessions). They both die in a car accident and the Christian goes "I told you so! Now I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell! I tried to help you." And the other goes "I don't wanna go to hell! can't I get saved now?". "Too late" They make it seem like the whole reason for getting saved is to escape hell. It really bothered me that they were putting it that way. Then, after the play, the preacher went up there and asked everyone "How many of you think if you died right now that you would go to Heaven?" Everyone raised their hands! Are they so confident of that? That they can go preaching "I'm going to Heaven. You're going to Hell. That's a sure thing. If you don't "get saved" you're not going to heaven." How do they know that person isn't "saved"? If it's a lifestyle, a way to live, something that happens in the heart like they say, then, how can they make those judgments? The person they are preaching to might have already resolved to struggle and give his/her life to God and most likely has a lot more humility than someone preaching those words! I'm sure they mean right. But it seems to me that some people try to simplify Christianity so much for those who are non-Christian that it almost changes the message completely.
The one thing that traps us most is that we think we are so nice. We don't do all those things that everyone else does. We compare ourselves with everyone else and think we're ok. So, "Get saved and you can be nice, too."? First, live it. Don't just be nice. Anyone can be nice.


Do you believe in the age of accountability? Can you tell me why or why not? Are there any references in the Bible to this? How old is a person when they reach the age of accountability? If the age varies, then at what point dose a child become responsible for his/her sins?
Well, I think a person is responsible for his/her sins as soon as they know there is a right and wrong. I haven't studied about this or anything and I don't know for sure if there is a direct reference to it in the Bible. The only thing I can think of that comes close right now is "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." I don't believe that a baby will go to hell, if that's what you are asking. I am Orthodox and we baptise babies. I know that protestants wait until the child is old enough to choose on his/her own. But your child will choose on his/her own wether you like it or not. If the person is convinced that Christianity is not what he/she wants, do you think that they will care if they were baptised a long time ago? It doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't believe it. A person who is glad of it would be a person who was living in Christ all along.
I would say more but I'm still not awake enough to think straight.

Is the King James Version the only correct version of the Bible? Do you think that this has any effects on people becoming Christians or not? Why is the King James version the only correct one?
I don't believe that it is the only correct version of the Bible. But there are so many versions out there that it is the best to use because it is so widely used. I certainly prefer it to the newer versions.
I was having a Bible study with my sister a few weeks ago over the phone because she is in college. I had a King James and she had some new version for teens. We were taking turns reading and hers sounded so different. So simplified. It definitely made things sound different. nd for teenagers! Don't teenagers study literature in schools? How can it be so difficult to understand?



Should the Gospel be shared with children, adults, teenagers, or who? Why?
The Gospel should be shared with everyone! It's the story of why we are even alive! And it's an amazing story. A wonderful story.

Have you ever bean physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most)
Not that I remember. In fact, one kid in school asked me if I wanted to pray with him before lunch. And he was someone I really wouldn't expect to do anything like that!

May the hair on your feet never fall out!
And may the hair on yours never fall out, either!

[hectorberlioz]

It always amazes me how much smarter you are than I , Jfishannah

[sun-star]

Originally posted by SamwiseLover2008
Sun-Star, do you believe that baptizem saves you?

Note: I don't want this to start an argument, I'm just wondering because I know that some people do think that baptizem=salvation, and your the first to reply in that way.

No, I didn't mean to imply that.

[Elf Girl]

Survey Questions for non-Christians
Name: Not telling.
Age: 13
Religion/beliefs: Atheist.
Where you live: Massachusets.
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What turns you off (makes you not interested) when you hear the word Christian, see a Bible est.?

Nothing. I read the Bible, I find Christianity very interesting (I'm fascinated with religion in general, Christianity's effect on society in particular). It's just not for me.

If you have, why have you chosen a different religion over Christianity?

I've chosen no religion because I can't just have faith. It's not within my personality to just believe.

If you are out of your parents house, then did you grow up in a Christian home? If you are not out of your parents house, then are you growing up in a Christian home?

I am in my parents' house, and it is not a Christian home. My mother was raised Christian, didn't like it, and decided she didn't have the authority to brainwash her child. She let me have a choice, and I am deeply grateful.

If you answered no to either of the questions above, then did you grow up ever going to church? If so, how often? If you grew up in a family with different religious beliefs, then what were they, and do you believe in them to this day?

I went to my mother's Unitarian church once. Didn't like it much.

What would make you interested in learning more about Christianity?

I'm already very interested in learning more about Christianity.

Did The Passion of the Christ, The Jesus Video, The Jesus Video for Children, or any other video that you might have seen have any effect on you? If so, what was it?

No. I don't usually watch movies at all, so I've seen no religious films.

Are there any movies, plays, books, est. that have interested you into further research and possibly attending church? If so then what? Why?

No, not really. I went through a religion phase awhile back where I tried (and failed) to convert to various religions but it wasn't inspired by anything other than a good Comparative Religion class in school.

Out of ten, rate the chances of you becoming a Christian or faithfully attending a Christian church weekly, one being the lowest, and ten being the highest, any time in the rest of your life.
Why?

1. I've said, it's not in me to blindly believe that everything is the will of God and will turn out just fine. I will always question. There is no faith for me.

[Khamûl]

Survey Question for Christians
Name: Michael
Age: 19
Age that you became a Christian: 9
Country and/or state/ general area: AL, USA
Religion: Baptist

What/who lead you to Christ? My pastor and my family.

Did you grow up in a Christian church? Yes

Did you grow up in a Christian family? Yes

Do you still attend Church faithfully to this day? Yes

What do you think turns people off from Christianity? Like other Christians here, I'd say hypocrisy. Non-Christians look at a hypocrite and say, "I'm just as good as they are, why should I become a Christian?". Granted, we're all guilty because no one is perfect, but we should make an effort.

How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel? Subtly. In-your-face hellfire and brimstone rarely works. By example also works well.

Do you believe in the age of accountability? Can you tell me why or why not? Are there any references in the Bible to this? How old is a person when they reach the age of accountability? If the age varies, then at what point dose a child become responsible for his/her sins? Yes. However, it's been years since I've thought about it, so I'm not sure on the particulars. Although I would agree that it would be the age at which the child becomes aware of the differences between right and wrong and the consequences of sin.

Is the King James Version the only correct version of the Bible? Do you think that this has any effects on people becoming Christians or not? Why is the King James version the only correct one? No. Perhaps the wording is powerful enough to help lead some people, but I don't think it's the only correct version.

Should the Gospel be shared with children, adults, teenagers, or who? Why? Yes. Everyone should hear.

Have you ever bean physically or verbally persecuted for your religious beliefs? If so, how, and why do you think it happened? Did this happen in the USA? (If this has happened multiple times, then pick one verbal and one physical action that stands out to you the most) I can't say that I have. I've engaged in a few debates, but haven't been persecuted.

[BeardofPants]

*persecutes Khamul*

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Khamûl

What do you think turns people off from Christianity? Like other Christians here, I'd say hypocrisy. Non-Christians look at a hypocrite and say, "I'm just as good as they are, why should I become a Christian?". Granted, we're all guilty because no one is perfect, but we should make an effort.

are you saying we should all make an effort to be christian?

i have come to believe that religion does not make a man,
man makes his religion, each person takes their own things to a system of beliefs, and shapes them to suit his needs.
I have found that Buddhism is truely the religion which works best for me. I do honour the method that everyone else chooses to worship though, don't get me wrong.
(i ought to take thgis through to real debate 4 religion

BTW you sound very mature for 18, I have just turned 18, but you don't sound at all like most of our age group I have met (forgive me my stereotyping )

[Khamûl]

By "we", I meant Christians. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Thanks for the compliment. Wait... I put that I'm 18? *goes back and looks* Whoops... I'm actually 19 and have been for several months now. I guess I'm just in denial. *scuttles off to correct the problem*

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by Khamûl
How should we (as Christians) best approach sharing the Gospel? Subtly. In-your-face hellfire and brimstone rarely works. By example also works well.

I mentioned that. Live lives of compassionate service and example...show people your kind and appreciative and you live a good life and are...oooo special.

[Rían]

Wow, some interesting replies ... thoughtful people here.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Valandil
Gaffer - I understand those problems that you have with Christianity... but again, bad examples, and not how Christ commanded us to live. Judgement we leave in God's hands, but for my part, I see a difference between a sinful person who truly repents on his death-bed - and a person who tries to 'have it both ways' -

I accept that what you describe is more genuinely close to what Christianity is than what I described.

However, I have a problem with the status of "bearing witness"? That strongly implies to me that you just have to go through the motions, and lots of people over the centuries have gone along with this.

Of course, I'm also referring back to the crusades and papal indulgences here. It seems rather convenient to have a religion that allowed these people to do what they did and even make money out of saving their souls.

"You slaughtered how many women and children in a month-long orgy of violence and abuse? That'll cost you, mate. Two monasteries and some of your lands down in Kent."

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Valandil
I'll reply to a bit of BoP's answer here if I could - not to either 'put you on the spot' or 'single you out' - but in fact to try to 'reassure' you about Christianity if at all possible - and give you my view of what you have encountered. Hope that's OK.

Val, I appreciate the time you took to explain some things, but I don't think I'll present them to my parents, as it's a pretty hopeless case. In the first, my dad wouldn't listen, and in the second, he thinks that the very foundation of the christian church is hypocrisy.

Regarding the literature, he reads Awake! and Watchtower - they're Jehovah's witness literature, I believe.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/...article_01.htm

That's the stuff I was talking about, not the chick lit, which I AM sadly also familiar with... I used to work in a delicatessen, and this crazy lady used to drop them off every week.

[Lizra]

ewwww! Looks like the stuff those Christian Convention goers would leave instead of tips ( $ ) at the restaurant I used to work at.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lizra
ewwww! Looks like the stuff those Christian Convention goers would leave instead of tips ( $ ) at the restaurant I used to work at.

Now THAT'S too bad... *sigh* - in their view, I guess they figured they were leaving you something more 'valuable' than tip money - but unfortunately, you couldn't bundle those tracts and send them in to pay your bills, could you?

Had a table-waiting phase myself for a couple years - and have always striven to tip well... ALL THE MORE when I'm with a group of Christians and that becomes apparent to our server.

Yes, BoP... when I was a teen-ager (and new Christian) I read some of those tracts (by Chick Publications) - and there was SOME good in them. Later though, I started to have some problems with them - and haven't really read (or even SEEN) any in ages. Didn't even know they had one that pushed the King James Bible (and slammed other translations) like you show...

[Valandil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
I accept that what you describe is more genuinely close to what Christianity is than what I described.

However, I have a problem with the status of "bearing witness"? That strongly implies to me that you just have to go through the motions, and lots of people over the centuries have gone along with this.

Of course, I'm also referring back to the crusades and papal indulgences here. It seems rather convenient to have a religion that allowed these people to do what they did and even make money out of saving their souls.

"You slaughtered how many women and children in a month-long orgy of violence and abuse? That'll cost you, mate. Two monasteries and some of your lands down in Kent."

Hence the Protestant Reformation! It was the sale of 'Indulgences' (along with a thorough reading of 'Romans') that prompted Martin Luther to challenge the Roman Catholic Church's policies (when he posted his 95 'theses' on the Cathedral door at Worms). (EDIT: and we Protestants have had our problems as well)

Don't know how sincere various crusading knights would have been in their 'repentance'... God will know.

How do you define 'bearing witness'? You seem to understand it as a passive activity... is that so? I don't - but I don't use this term frequently (unfortunately, each group of Christians seems to come up with their own wording... the intent is not to develop an 'insider language' - which is what develops at times - but just to try and explain things to our own satisfaction... don't know how well we even do that! )

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Valandil
Hence the Protestant Reformation! It was the sale of 'Indulgences' (along with a thorough reading of 'Romans') that prompted Martin Luther to challenge the Roman Catholic Church's policies (when he posted his 95 'theses' on the Cathedral door at Worms).

Don't know how sincere various crusading knights would have been in their 'repentance'... God will know.

How do you define 'bearing witness'? You seem to understand it as a passive activity... is that so? I don't - but I don't use this term frequently (unfortunately, each group of Christians seems to come up with their own wording... the intent is not to develop an 'insider language' - which is what develops at times - but just to try and explain things to our own satisfaction... don't know how well we even do that! )

Its funny, the catholics expected to go to heaven because of good deeds, and the protestants expect to go if go to church every sunday... .
Seems every church denomination goes corrupt sooner or later, in some way or other. I'm not stereotyping, just an observation from another christian-me.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
Its funny, the catholics expected to go to heaven because of good deeds, and the protestants expect to go if go to church every sunday... .
Seems every church denomination goes corrupt sooner or later, in some way or other. I'm not stereotyping, just an observation from another christian-me.

While writing the above, I intended to mention that we Protestants have had our problems too (I will edit accordingly). There IS one problem with all churches... they're made up entirely of people!