Middle-Earth Lords

[Thrain]

Well....
His quick thinking didn't get him that far did it.
Ya, know I guess it really doesn't matter that the entire world suffered frrom his "quick-thinking". Even though he faced all those things isn't it possible that he just muffed it. If he is the entire lord of Gondor than shouldn't he have trusted his comrades and friends instead of saying to heck with it I want it. I mean did he think that the evil force of the world would just let him have it. Also if all his friends died his family killed than shouldn't he have destroyed the thing that did that to him And did he want other people like himself to suffer. So there.

[Nibs]

Originally posted by Thrain
Elvet,
Are you insane?
Thorin was totally wack.

As much as I agree with that, Thrain, you basically alluded this same thing in the "Hello and Boromir" thread, except on the opposing side:

Originally posted by Thrain
I don't like Boromir. End of story.

I totally agree; you're entitled to your own opinion. End of story. But you follow that with questioning someone else's sanity because of their opinion? My pointing this out will doubtless not affect your conduct, but hopefully keep other members from flaming you. Try to respect others' opinions more than you have.

Concerning Isildur, after he got the ring he actually went back to... was it Minas Anor at the time? Anyway, he went some place and instructed his nephew about something and then upon his journey to his father's lands they were waylaid by a group of orcs. As it is said, the ring betrayed him and slipped from his finger while escaping by way of swimming. Therefore, it is clear that it wasn't his own doing and had little control of the matter. In other words, Isildur had no control over what happened to him, but he had it for plenty longer than "a couple of hours."

Anyway, as I mentioned, my list was subject to change. Azhagal, lord of the Dwarves of Belegost is my current favorite.

[Arathorn]

Nope. Isildur's still my current favorite human lord after all the posts since my last one although I am trying to see why it should be another human lord.

BTW, Thrain, what would you have done if you had cut the ring during that time? Perhaps you can convince me to change my choice of human lord based on that since the One Ring seems to be the best reason why I should. I am just a little curious.

[Thrain]

I have done the same thing he did and then I wouldn't like myself either. Just because I would have done it doesn't mean that it changes anything it would just say "____ took the ring but did not destroy it instead he kept it and doomeed the world in the process." I don't know if I can change your opinion but my argument still stands Isildur made a bad choice it doesn't matter if it had been Aragorn, Boromir or me. It still was a bad choice.


Nibs: Thanks for cluing me in on my hostility I just sometimes get carried away.

Elvet: sorry for calling you insane.

Anybody else I have offended: Sorry, I just get carried away sometimes.

[Cirdan]

Alright, Elrond and I tried to convince Isildur to destroy the evil thing. We tried to tell him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin, but no, he had to keep it. So he kept the stupid thing a week. Looking back I'm sure that even at the council he was already under its sway. We knew it was evil but what effect it had on the bearer we knew not or our council would have been stronger for the rings destruction. We felt like a hippocrates anyway since we still had Narya and Nenya. Oh well, live and learn.

Cirdan

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Cirdan, I think you (or Elrond, I don't remember) had Vilya. Nenya is Galadriel's Ring. But thanks, Arathorn and Cirdan, I never really looked at Isildur's experience with The Ring that way. Quite insightful.

[Thrain]

Cirdan----
Totally agree. He was under its sway ever since he picked up. It wanted him. When the ring relized it had lost its master it found a new one ---Isildur--- knowing that Isildur was just barely fighting the urge to keep it. Stupidly he did.

[Cirdan]

Thanks Thrain. I think he was foolish, not stupid. Even the wisest man will find his own folly in life's journey.

Eruviel Greenleaf, you are correct. I possessed Narya and Gil-Galad, then Elrond, posessed Vilya. When I think of Elrond I think of water. As a shipwright don't you think I should have had the air or water ring? Go figure.

[Nibs]

You have to wonder whether he had the actual choice of throwing the ring into Orodruin. Assuming he hadn't put the ring on, then it wouldn't have much power over him, but it was enough for Isildur to not listen to reason. Frankly, I'd do anything Elrond told me to.

[Thrain]

Yeah I mean he is not my favorite lord but that doesn't mean I hate his guts. He was foolish not stupid like you said Cirdan. He made a mistake and that is o.k. but you have got to pay the price for making the mistake,

[Cirdan]

As far as Lords I obviously like Cirdan. Always faithful to the valar, strong in war, and he had and actual skill other than making jewelry and implements of war. He was building magnificent fleets while others spent far too much time digging in the mddle earth. He should have hooked up with Galadriel. They would have made a nice couple.

[Brimvalir]

One of my favorites(lords) is The Lord of the Mark - Theoden - he really got going once he saw through wormtongue

[Arathorn]

I'm sorry. The closest, in terms of my candidates for my favorite human lord is Aragorn. But if, as Thrain says (please correct me if I misunderstood what you said), it wouldn't have made a difference if Aragorn or him or Boromir were there and had cut the ring they would still have kept it (foolishly or tempted by the ring), then it wouldn't have made my choice different either.

Aragorn had good coaching and had foreknowledge of the ring's corrupting power Isildur didn't. He was told all those stories about Isildur most of his life. And there was Frodo holding the ring all the time. Aragorn wasn't tested the same way Isildur was. He learned his lesson from Isildur's mistake, in fact. So concerning the One Ring, he had it good, IMO.

Anyway, written in my first post is still the main reason why Isildur's my favorite human lord.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Now I've just been thinking about what I would do in Isildur's position. . .I'm going to have to think about it for a while. Good point, Arathorn, Aragorn did have it easy. Really easy. But now I'm going to have to read the Silmarillion right away so I can more easily think about who my favorite lords are in a less biased way. Except that favorites are all about biases.
The way Isildur is portrayed in the movie makes him look bad. In the book, it is easier to see his side, methinks.

[Thrain]

Now okay,
Aragorn would have done the same thing because at that time nobody had any foreknoweledge.
Now maybe he did have it easy but every character in the book had it easy except for Frodo. I also think it is kind of suprisisng that Boromir however did have that fore knoweledge but he still went for it. Now maybe he slightly redeemed himself by saving the hobbits. But Isildur with out the knowledge still made the same choice. I think that if Isildur had the fore knowledge he would have made the same choice. I mean if Boromir did it why wouldn't Isildur do it. So there.

[Arathorn]

Yes. It is close to impossible if not impossible to compare 2 people generations apart confronted with different circumstances. But if we were talking about favorite lords my human lord would still be Isildur. We have different biases, obviously, but I tend to look at:
1. the difficulty of the situation
2. how the decision was arrived at
3. the choice

in that order when choosing my favorites. The choice itself is a far 3rd for me. You probably have them in a different order but I was always talking about my favorite (which implies an opinion of admiration) and not who's best.

[Cirdan]

Not quite. Boromir was never the ring bearer. Master Samwise went for the goods and pretty quickly began to succumb.

[afro-elf]

I think that if Isildur had the fore knowledge he would have made the same choice. I mean if Boromir did it why wouldn't Isildur do it. So there.

not necesarrily so

the blood of numenor was FAR stronger in Isildur than Boromir.
Read what it says bout Boromir when being compared to his father and brother

as for isildur forget ye not the exploits of his youth.

He was a member of the Faithful

I am NOT saying his choice DEFINATELY would have been different BUT there is reason to believe that it COULD have been if he were counseled like aragorn.


anyway


I would choose

Fingolfin and ecthelion and maybe earendil or glorfindel for elves

dwarves azgahal and dain

men Hurin and Imrahil

I have to comb the appendices for before my final choice for men


cirdan

if you and Galadriel had hooked up WOW. your offspring would have been AWESOME. what if you had several daughters ( maybe some son's too) wives for Gil-galad, Elrond, Glorfindel, and Gildor. And what if there offspring had great offspring....

[Cirdan]

Afro-elf,

I must confess I always had a thing for Galadriel. I just could never understand what she sees in Celeborn. Then again I was always putting out to sea, and in my younger days I had an elfess in every port (there weren't many ports then). Celeborn was more the stay at home type. A bit hen-pecked, too.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Afro-elf,

I must confess I always had a thing for Galadriel. I just could never understand what she sees in Celeborn. Then again I was always putting out to sea, and in my younger days I had an elfess in every port (there weren't many ports then). Celeborn was more the stay at home type. A bit hen-pecked, too.

Yeah, I agree. You should have got her Cirdan. You would have had a great brother-in-law.