Historical Trivia

[Nerdanel]

:bump^p^p:

did you kill this thread, Janny?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i want to play this game,
so...bump,bump,bump!!

someone gonna ask a question?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Janny
In 1948 a Washington radio station asked various ambassadors what they would like most for Christmas.
The French ambassador said 'Peace throughout the world'.
The Soviet said 'Freedom for all people enslaved by imperialism'.
The British Ambassador, Sir Oliver Franks sadly misunderstood the question and replied: 'Well, it's very kind of you to ask. I'd quite like a box of crystalised fruits'.

just about sums up our glorious peoples, durnst it?

[Janny]

Yes, but I like the Communist approach... so who's enslaving who again?

[Janny]

*Bumperty bump bump*

Chez Guevarez became the minister for finance in Cuba after mishearing 'economist' for 'communist' in a meeting.
Easy mistake.

[Nariel]

Common tale told in history books: Commodore Matthew Perry helped open up trade with Japan.

True story: Matthew Perry (not the actor) showed up at Japan's shores and asked for a meeting with the Emperor. When the Emperor refused to trade with the USA, Perry simply pointed out a window to five gunboats, prepped and aimed for attack. He said,
"Now will you trade with us?"

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Nariel
True story: Matthew Perry (not the actor)

Not the actor? Pity, that would be a funny story...

Historicalish comment: Nariel, whenever I see your avatar I think of Queen Victoria. There's a portrait of her in similar colours (yours is prettier though)

[Janny]

The Democrat symbol is the Donkey. This derives from the second US presidential campaign, when someone accused Jackson of being a 'jackass'. He promptly stuck a donkey on his election poster, and won the election.

In recent years, the Donkey wears flip-flops.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Janny

The Democrat symbol is the Donkey. This derives from the second US presidential campaign, when someone accused Jackson of being a 'jackass'. He promptly stuck a donkey on his election poster, and won the election.

If you are saying that Andrew Jackson ran in the second US presidential race and won - that is wrong. John Adams was our second president. Andrew Jackson was our 7th president. Also - during the second presidential elections - there was not such thing as seperate republican and democratic parties (my high school history book lists John Quincy Adams, who was the 6th president, as a Democrat - Repulican), however during Jackson the old party did split into what would become the whig (Republican) and Democtratic parties. Andrew Jackson is listed as being democrat. The history of the split of the parties is complicated and I don't know that much about it.

Also - although I'm not sure how the donkey and elephant first came to be symbols of the parties, I do know they were first developed and popularized by a New Jersey cartoonist named Thomas Nast who worked for Harpers Weekly. He also developed the American Santa Clause and Uncle Sam.

One other point - according to the Encyclopedia of New Jersey - "Nast attacked Andrew Johnson and the democrats, wielding his pen in favor of the Republican nominee and Union war hero Ulysses Grant in 1868." So I think it was under Johnson - not Jackson that the symbol of the donkey and elephant came to be.

If you have further information on this - I'd like to hear it though. I just always thought the symbols of the two parties were developed during the election with Johnson. But I still don't know why the donkey and elephant were chosen. I figured nast did pick it as an indication that he felt Johnson was an ass. It's hard to believe that the democrats would keep this symbol though.

List of Presidents and Biographies
Andrew Jackson
Andrew Johnson

[Mercutio]

I was going to quote it but the article's too long.

Here's a website that explains the political party history (who the Dem.-Rep., Federalists, Whigs, Dem., Rep., etc. are).

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

I was going to quote it but the article's too long.

Here's a website that explains the political party history (who the Dem.-Rep., Federalists, Whigs, Dem., Rep., etc. are).

Thanks - but where's the website?

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

If you are saying that Andrew Jackson ran in the second US presidential race and won - that is wrong. John Adams was our second president. Andrew Jackson was our 7th president. Also - during the second presidential elections - there was not such thing as seperate republican and democratic parties (my high school history book lists John Quincy Adams, who was the 6th president, as a Democrat - Repulican), however during Jackson the old party did split into what would become the whig (Republican) and Democtratic parties. Andrew Jackson is listed as being democrat. The history of the split of the parties is complicated and I don't know that much about it.

Also - although I'm not sure how the donkey and elephant first came to be symbols of the parties, I do know they were first developed and popularized by a New Jersey cartoonist named Thomas Nast who worked for Harpers Weekly. He also developed the American Santa Clause and Uncle Sam.

One other point - according to the Encyclopedia of New Jersey - "Nast attacked Andrew Johnson and the democrats, wielding his pen in favor of the Republican nominee and Union war hero Ulysses Grant in 1868." So I think it was under Johnson - not Jackson that the symbol of the donkey and elephant came to be.

If you have further information on this - I'd like to hear it though. I just always thought the symbols of the two parties were developed during the election with Johnson. But I still don't know why the donkey and elephant were chosen. I figured nast did pick it as an indication that he felt Johnson was an ass. It's hard to believe that the democrats would keep this symbol though.

List of Presidents and Biographies
Andrew Jackson
Andrew Johnson

Well thank the good lord that you, my dear, supreme JD, are hear to point out what what we as mortals are doing wrong today. And of course, be it the Chinese Ming Dynasty or the Boer War, surely New Jersey's view must be considered....

And, dear JD, by the by, quoth the Raven:

"The first time the donkey was used in a political cartoon to represent the Democratic party, it was again in conjunction with Jackson. Although in 1837 Jackson was retired, he still thought of himself as the Party's leader and was shown trying to get the donkey to go where he wanted it to go. The cartoon was titled "A Modern Baalim and his Ass."

Thats from a similar source as Janney, or alternativley, we are both rather intoxicated.

http://www.democrats.org/about/donkey.html

And of course NJ, that beloved piece of the US (chortle), must have been so involved so as to have dwarfed the other states, as per usual?

[Fenir_LacDanan]

ANYWAY.

Back to Historical trivia:

Someone give me the broad strokes of Plato's "Republic". Gee, don't he love Democracy? En Guard!

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

Well thank the good lord that you, my dear, supreme JD, are hear to point out what what we as mortals are doing wrong today. And of course, be it the Chinese Ming Dynasty or the Boer War, surely New Jersey's view must be considered....

And, dear JD, by the by, quoth the Raven:

"The first time the donkey was used in a political cartoon to represent the Democratic party, it was again in conjunction with Jackson. Although in 1837 Jackson was retired, he still thought of himself as the Party's leader and was shown trying to get the donkey to go where he wanted it to go. The cartoon was titled "A Modern Baalim and his Ass."

Thats from a similar source as Janney, or alternativley, we are both rather intoxicated.

http://www.democrats.org/about/donkey.html

And of course NJ, that beloved piece of the US (chortle), must have been so involved so as to have dwarfed the other states, as per usual?

Fenir, I don't quite understand... this is historical trivia, and you're giving JD a hard time for trying to set the record straight? What's up with that?

It could well be that you're both somewhat correct on the use of the donkey... the origins of such things are often unclear after the passage of a few generations.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Fenir, I don't quite understand... this is historical trivia, and you're giving JD a hard time for trying to set the record straight? What's up with that?

It could well be that you're both somewhat correct on the use of the donkey... the origins of such things are often unclear after the passage of a few generations.

Oh he's just having a hissy fit because I wouldn't respond his attack in the Russian thread. He now thinks he can attack me here and I'll respond. I however have nothing to say to him.

[Janny]

Well, that's the last time I mention any research I do...

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Oh he's just having a hissy fit because I wouldn't respond his attack in the Russian thread. He now thinks he can attack me here and I'll respond. I however have nothing to say to him.

I love you JD and I hope you know that

[Mercutio]

whoops whoops whoops! And I haven't been here recently either. Sorry

Here it is: http://encarta.msn.com/text_76155830...ed_States.html

I'm also taking AP American History this year so I might ask a lot of questions/trivia in this thread.

[Mercutio]

JD: Is the Berkeley who founded Jersey the same as Gov. Berkeley of VA (the guy involved in Bacon's rebellion)?


OK: off the top of your head (no looking up here ), who founded the colonies of DE and NY? The same guy that for both.

I'm ashamed to say none of us in my history class knew that today. And we live in DE!!! They didn't name anything that I know after him, either. I'm sitting there going through major cities/towns wondering...which of these could have been named after a Swedish guy? (Hint= he's Swedish)

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

JD: Is the Berkeley who founded Jersey the same as Gov. Berkeley of VA (the guy involved in Bacon's rebellion)?

No - Lord Berkley never came to the colonies. Lord Berkley was the Baron of Straton and was a commander during the British Civil War. He became a close friend to King James II while in exile. King James II, after being restored back onto the throne, gave Lord Berkley and Sir George Carteret the land between the Hudson and the Delaware (New Jersey). After failing to capitalize on the gift by the king by encouraging settlements - he sold his shares to John Fenwick (this would become West Jersey).

Before 1664 (the official founding date for NJ) - New Jersey was part of the Dutch colony of New Netherlands. The British took over the land without firing a shot by giving the Dutch an ultimatum; either surrender the land or be destroyed. The Dutch were completely defenseless and had no choice. It was the same way the Dutch took over the New Sweden colony in September 1655 in southern NJ.