hunting

I'd really have to sympathize with Lotesse's point about farm animals. The idea that we keep animals penned up for the express purpose of killing them and eating them kinda bugs me. At least a deer's got a fighting chance (Oh, wait, I just said this ). Killing things should be harder.

For this same reason, I often wish that we could get rid of guns altogether. Killing another human being in war should be something difficult. It should be something you are hesitant to do. Don't misunderstand me, I am not for more government gun control (proud owner of a 1944 Turkish Mauser myself). I just think that it makes it a tad too easy, psychologically, to kill someone or something. It's a lot harder to make yourself drive 18 inches of steel into a person than it is to pull a trigger and let a bullet smash through their skull.

I know that was kinda off topic but....

[Spock]

yep it is off topic.

Animals have rights; the right to be served with the right sauce.
---another bumper sticker seen today-----

[Lotesse]

The thing about domesticated animals is that they need to be raised and slaughtered by people who can treat living things with the natural common respect due them as other living things. People need to keep the animals clean, drug-free, healthy and uncrowded, and not tolerate nor engage in cruel and debasing living conditions/slaughter-procedures but rather conduct the business of farming meat in a way that brings some balance to the earth and keeps us as humans from becoming a cruel and casually heartless species capable only of destruction. Is that what we want to progress toward? The native americans sum up this idea perfectly; look how they treated the animals that they hunted and used, with RESPECT, without cruelty and waste and ugly destruction. With some friggin' dignity.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

The native americans sum up this idea perfectly; look how they treated the animals that they hunted and used, with RESPECT, without cruelty and waste and ugly destruction. With some friggin' dignity.

you make a very good point

[Spock]

Lotesse, just take your post and turn it around for humans; it's most profound.

[brownjenkins]

humans are the only living thing we know of that can choose whether or not to respect the world around us... to think long-term... if we choose to act like all other lifeforms with only our personal short-term self interest in mind, are we really anything unique?

[Spock]

Nope, we're just being us.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

Nope, we're just being us.

my suspicion is that your statement may be more true than many are willing to admit

[Spock]

There was a man who loved animals and took care of them and did not abuse them. He was a vegetarian.


He did however kill over six million people who didn't fit in with his ideas.


His name Adolf Hitler

[Falagar]

A vegetarian for medical reasons, not sentimental, if I'm not much mistaken.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

There was a man who loved animals and took care of them and did not abuse them. He was a vegetarian.


He did however kill over six million people who didn't fit in with his ideas.


His name Adolf Hitler

a great example of a human being who did not think long-term well enough

[Falagar]

Or thought long-term in a mode quite, quite different from our own.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Falagar

A vegetarian for medical reasons, not sentimental, if I'm not much mistaken.

...please not another apologist.....

[Earniel]

Okay, so caring for animals is evil now? Because you are sure to so NOT care when your fellow man is getting killed in gruesome ways? Mkay, nice tactic if somewhat big mental leap.

I think we've pretty much handled hunting for food, but what about hunting for furs? I think that is a big hunk of the hunting activities today as well. Is it any different? Because most animals that are hunted for fur are predators or animals with reasonable own defenses and usually rare as well. How about hunting for ivory? I'd like to know your thoughts on that as well.

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Okay, so caring for animals is evil now? Because you are sure to so NOT care when your fellow man is getting killed in gruesome ways? Mkay, nice tactic if somewhat big mental leap.

I think we've pretty much handled hunting for food, but what about hunting for furs? I think that is a big hunk of the hunting activities today as well. Is it any different? Because most animals that are hunted for fur are predators or animals with reasonable own defenses and usually rare as well. How about hunting for ivory? I'd like to know your thoughts on that as well.

as far as i know hunting elephant or rhino is now illegal so the correct term is poaching not hunting, of course we all agree it is unethical to poach

[Earniel]

Elephants are not the only source of ivory, rhino's don't even have real ivory. But perhaps ivory indeed wasn't a good example.

Well, one thing about furs, they are _very_ warm. They're supposed to be .
I have no problem with someone wearing furs because they're warm. But to do so for decoration and conspicious consumption...not so much.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Acran Mern

Well, one thing about furs, they are _very_ warm. They're supposed to be .
I have no problem with someone wearing furs because they're warm. But to do so for decoration and conspicious consumption...not so much.

See, that's the problem with people of that ilk, when we were in Amsterdam eons ago, the movement was spashing paint and stuff on anyone wearing a fur coat. The fact that a fur coat is warm and needed for warmth and happens to be stylish and natural didn't faze them in the least.

[Lotesse]

Look, you guys, what is so difficult to comprehend about the fact that hunting wild animals is completely obsolete as a means to feed and/or clothe ourselves, and has therefore become just a plain cruel, stupid, arrogant, and disgusting pasttime that creates and beautifies nothing and does not elevate us as a species but lowers us? If one wishes to be treated with respect, one must extend respect - it's quite friggin' simple. And I'm not talking about special circumstances such as necessary deer population control; that's a type of hunting that we need to do to help the deers, because their environment has been so altered by us they need our intervention in that respect, and so thinning the deer is not cruel, but kind. But use common friggin' sense, common sense and even a rudimentary conscience will make it pretty clear to people what is "right" or "wrong" about the decision to run around hunting whatever they feel like just because they can. Hunting for fun and "sport" (sport - what a joke) is 100 percent selfish, and 100 percent cowardly. Destroyers and usurpers, curse them! oh - getting carried away again....

[Spock]

.....yeah but us'n use comon cents and likes to do it....you all don't haf to but that don't mean we're off the wall.