Concerning Smeagol - Page 3

Tar-Elendil · 05-19-2002, 03:41 PM

i think there is more than one reason for the effects from the ring upon gollum opposed to biblbo or frodo. First of all, smeagol wasnt exactly like the hobbits in the shire. remember it says he was related "distantly" to hobbits.second, i think smeagol had a rotten heart.last, i think the ring varied its power while in gollum, bilbo, and frodos possesions. All the ring wanted was to get back to its master. it intentionally left gollum becuz he knew that he would never leave from under the mountains now and he was useless at that point.

entss89 · 08-19-2002, 06:45 PM

NO.....................................

IDEAS............................................. ...

AT................................................ ........

ALL............................................... ...........

barrelrider110 · 08-20-2002, 08:24 AM

I agree with TE on this point:

Quote:

First of all, smeagol wasnt exactly like the hobbits in the shire. remember it says he was related "distantly" to hobbits.

Quote:

i think smeagol had a rotten heart.

I disagree. From his conversations with his alter ego in TTT it is evident that he had some good in him to begin with, and as a matter of fact, JRRT's characters are all good to begin with except /MelkorMorgoth. I think before the ring found him, he was sneaky, and praps had a mean streak in him, but everyone has issues of some sort, don't you think? I think he was basically a good stoor before the ring found him but was instantly corrupted.

Quote:

i think the ring varied its power while in gollum, bilbo, and frodos possesions.

I also think that each possessed a different ability to resist the power of the ring. Frodo had the most, and Bilbo a close second both because by the time the ring came into their possessions they were mature and virtuous. I surmise that Smeagol/Gollum was younger and more immature when the ring found him and therefore more susceptable to its effects.

Linarryl · 10-20-2002, 11:28 AM

Well there is a difference. Smeagol murdered Deagol. Bilbo and Frodo didn't do that kind of things. I guess gollum just wanted it a little more than Bilbo or Frodo.

katya · 10-20-2002, 05:12 PM

I will have to read a lot more and think about this matter a litte bit more before making a final decision, but I think we need to make sure of something:
We can't analyze Smeagol/Gollum as if he was a real person. Tolkien himself perhaps knew about him, but maybe he said some things about him that were, for example, a little out of character. So you can't look at this as if you were dealing with a real person, since though Tolkien is a genious, he can't have known everything about human (or rather semi-hobbit) behavior, if that makes any sense at all. I am not saying that anyone has done this, but I have seen it done before to other people, for example, saying that a character commited suicide because she was suffering from post-pardom depression, when at the time of publication no one really knew much about that to begin with. I hope this makes any sense at all.

Aeryn · 10-20-2002, 06:39 PM

I believe that the book also says (Gandalf speaking to frodo about the effects on bilbo? I have lost my book so I dont know for sure) That the person whereing the ring will be 'good' longer if their intentions to use the ring from the beginning are pure.

05-19-2002, 03:41 PM	#41
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	i think there is more than one reason for the effects from the ring upon gollum opposed to biblbo or frodo. First of all, smeagol wasnt exactly like the hobbits in the shire. remember it says he was related "distantly" to hobbits.second, i think smeagol had a rotten heart.last, i think the ring varied its power while in gollum, bilbo, and frodos possesions. All the ring wanted was to get back to its master. it intentionally left gollum becuz he knew that he would never leave from under the mountains now and he was useless at that point. __________________ Why can we not be sober..

10-20-2002, 06:39 PM	#46
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	I believe I believe that the book also says (Gandalf speaking to frodo about the effects on bilbo? I have lost my book so I dont know for sure) That the person whereing the ring will be 'good' longer if their intentions to use the ring from the beginning are pure. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

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08-19-2002, 06:45 PM	#42
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	NO..................................... IDEAS............................................. ... AT................................................ ........ ALL............................................... ...........

10-20-2002, 11:28 AM	#44
Linarryl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 160	Well there is a difference. Smeagol murdered Deagol. Bilbo and Frodo didn't do that kind of things. I guess gollum just wanted it a little more than Bilbo or Frodo.

10-20-2002, 05:12 PM	#45
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I will have to read a lot more and think about this matter a litte bit more before making a final decision, but I think we need to make sure of something: We can't analyze Smeagol/Gollum as if he was a real person. Tolkien himself perhaps knew about him, but maybe he said some things about him that were, for example, a little out of character. So you can't look at this as if you were dealing with a real person, since though Tolkien is a genious, he can't have known everything about human (or rather semi-hobbit) behavior, if that makes any sense at all. I am not saying that anyone has done this, but I have seen it done before to other people, for example, saying that a character commited suicide because she was suffering from post-pardom depression, when at the time of publication no one really knew much about that to begin with. I hope this makes any sense at all.