10-11-2002, 03:11 PM | #41 | |
im quite stupid
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But im english we would of never sucombed to the Germans even if we all died its not our way.
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
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10-11-2002, 03:18 PM | #42 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - as I said regarding us staying out of WWII until we were bombed at Pearl Harbor - it was Europe's war. You got us into another world war less than 20 years before - against the same country. American's did not support geting involved with the war. Also - we helped militarily by supplying weaponry and everything else. We weren't exactly uninvolved in it as you seem to suggest Sween.
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10-11-2002, 03:20 PM | #43 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Why is Bush so bent on getting Saddam out? Is Saddam suddenly more dangerous than he was a year ago? Rather unlikely I think. In my view Bush wants to find another enemy to focus on since the taliban no longer control Afghanistan. I think it's really really stupid. The moment you pick up your gun to start a war you'll destroy more than you'll ever be able to rebuild in a lifetime. Yes, the taliban are defeated and Afghanistan has a new government but that didn't stop the war there. Look how long it took the two parts of Korea to come on speaking terms again. I don't think that removing Saddam is going to solve the iraq-situation like that. Most likely it's going to increase anti-american sentiments in the arab world even further.
Saddam probably has weapons, but there is a difference between having them and using them. So far he hasn't used them and I don't see the need of giving him a reason to do so. And seeing the time it took him and Blair to show us the evidence of the iraqi threat, I can't help myself but thinking that the evidence is either forged or exagerrated. It is as like nothing iraq can say or do will stop Bush from attacking. What's even more frightening is how Bush seems to place America above every one else: American soldiers shouldn't be allowed to be judged by the international court of The Hague, America doesn't need to ratify Kyoto, if America wants to build a missile shield, the former treaties preventing that are simply abandoned.... It wouldn't surprise me if he attacked Iraq even when the UN says no. I'm not such a great supporter of the UN, they are slow and indecisive about a lot of things and each land has it's own agenda. But I believe it's a better way to deal with international situations than that each country does what it pleases.
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10-11-2002, 03:39 PM | #44 | |||
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Why should we have signed the Kyoto treaty? And why can't we discuss with the country that we had a treaty with and leave it after mutual agreement. I don't recall Belgium or any other country signing the missile treaty. The only country we had to discuss pulling out of the treaty with was Russia - which we did. As far as I'm concerned it was no one else's business. And yes - if we felt it was in our overriding best interest to attack Iraq and the American public supported it - we would. Right now the American public support is still very questionable. Everyone argued on this board months ago that America was going to attack anyday. Well we still haven't attacked. We did everything that the world wanted us to do - but it's still not enough. We don't say the right things. We don't give enough information. We don't give the information fast enough. Give me a break.
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10-11-2002, 03:49 PM | #45 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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J-D, the Hitler comparison doesn't wash. Before WWI Germany was THE most populous industrialized nation. Very little happen to Germany in the WWI. They overcame the Depression and Post-war sactions to build tyhe most powerful military force in the world. The US was a hick town by comparison. It to the combined effort of many nations so subjegate them. Saddam doesn't even have an air force to speak of. Anything that was left from the Gulf War is decrepit and there is no sigh he can put forth more than lots on infantry. Syria could beat Iraq. If WMDs exist they will be launched agaist Israeli civilians of the first day of the invasion. We would be better served to devise a scheme of protecting our borders from ALL threats, not just imaginary, potential ones.
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10-11-2002, 04:04 PM | #46 | |
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Oh and by the way - the only reason why germany was able to build their military up and overcome the sanctions 0- was because they weren't enforced by Europe. Forgive me if I'm wrong - but it does seem sort of similar. I'll grant you that Hitler put more money into his people than Hussein does though.
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10-11-2002, 04:12 PM | #47 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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The chemical and biological weapons he has came from us. We intended him to use them on Iran. Nobody thinks he actually has any nukes. He has no way to deliver them except via terrorist. But then even if he is gone that threat still exists. It's treating the symptom and not the disease; namely piss-poor home security on the part of the US government.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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10-11-2002, 04:24 PM | #48 | |||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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10-11-2002, 04:41 PM | #49 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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10-11-2002, 07:35 PM | #50 |
Elven Warrior
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Well congress has just granted GW Bush the powers to use America's armed forces to attack Iraq
Lets hope the terrorists, in my view the most immediate threat to American security don't take advantage at this time I think this is going to have consequences even out children (or granchildren) are going to both hate and be worried about Go America |
10-11-2002, 07:53 PM | #51 | |||
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Everyone knew that the House and Senate were going to give Bush the go ahead on it. I haven't read yet what Congress has actually given Bush the go ahead on though. Quote:
How do you know that Saddan Hussein hasn't been supporting any terrorists? He publicly supports the suicide bombers. Quote:
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10-11-2002, 08:10 PM | #52 | |
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My main concern in this whole "war on Iraq" is that there is no physical proof!!.........You made reference to the days preceding WW2 earlier, can I remind you that negotiations between Chamberlain (the pm at the time) and Hitler actually took place because we knew that Hitler was creating his war machine (amassing armies, stock piling arms and armaments etc). The nightmare outcome in this Iraq scenario is that the US (or the UN if they back america) invade Iraq, kill thousands, only to discover that Iraq did NOT have weapons of mass destruction at all and Sadam was just another loudmouth who relied on propaganda to remain in control.............relations between the middle east and the west will never recover from such actions Where is the evidence........surely it is not legal, or moral, to go to war just because a nation has voiciferically proclaimed hatred and prejudice against another ................ if the proof was there, sure I cannot argue against anyone defending themselves from a real threat...............but where is the proof Last edited by osszie : 10-11-2002 at 08:11 PM. |
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10-11-2002, 08:31 PM | #53 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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You don't have to tell me to look at sites to keep up on the news. I am very well informed - but since I have been away for a while - I have been unable to keep up on the news as much. I do however know that the polls still indicate that the majority of AMERICANS support taking out Saddam Hussein. Quote:
This was Nightline a couple of nights ago - Quote:
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10-11-2002, 08:37 PM | #54 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-11-2002 at 08:40 PM. |
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10-11-2002, 08:39 PM | #55 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Continued......
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10-11-2002, 08:53 PM | #56 | |
Elven Warrior
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IMO this is just another war based on hearsay, speculation and paranoia ............. everyone raves on how much of a psychopath Saddam is..........yet his physical actions against the western world are practically non-existant. Hopefully this will not be viewed on as the next American Vietnam ( a pointless war ) So much conflict in the world......so many wars and America are starting one of their own I hope someone finds those news reports you've posted usefull JD, personally I try to find as many varied news reports as possible, not just ones from my own country. |
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10-11-2002, 09:00 PM | #57 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Well we got involved in Vietnam because of France. I've gone into this in other threads. Quote:
Also since this news is FROM America and you're from England I don't exactly see your point about "personally I try to find as many varied news reports as possible, not just ones from my own country. " You should try to understand the way the American system of government works before blabbing the two dimensional views that Europe and the rest of the world has about our political system. Very view people seem to understand our political system and just assume it works the same way as theirs. It's impossible to read a lot of outside news from the rest of the world about American policies because they water down the decision making process so much. The rest of the world seems to think that the US government revolves around the president. They have no understanding of our checks and balances or the role Congress and the Supreme Court play. Outside views of America are very shallow and stereotypical. Europe claims we should work to understand the outside world more - but they seem to be very unwilling to take the time to understand us.
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10-11-2002, 09:12 PM | #58 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Americans are divided on this issue. Most people support the effort, but even more support waiting for weapons inspections and using the UN first. If the inspections go well we may yet avoid war. If we use the inspections as an intelligence gathering tool for the CIA as we did before, we will jepodize the unstable regimes in the Middle East when war begins. It is critical that the opposition here at home holds the administration's feet to the fire. The administration's credibilbity is questionable since the reasons and the plans have changed from week to week. At one point they were demanding first stike without the UN and regime change, weapons inspections or not. Only the poll numbers have moderated this position. I hope that the bellicose stance has the positive effect of producing successful weapons inspection and no war. Leave the regime change to the Iraqi people. Hussein will die eventually, one way or another.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-11-2002, 09:21 PM | #59 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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10-11-2002, 09:25 PM | #60 | |
Elven Warrior
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JD I hope you are right, if your not then the next generation is going to have to spend an awfull long time clearing up this potential mess Earlier in this thread I said that I would not become involved in this discussion (hypocrit that I am ) and now I think it is time to bite my tongue again JD, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I did sense a teeny bit of animosity in your earlier posts .......... I viewed this thread as a discussion, nothing more (with maybe a small bit of flame on my part). |
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