Opinions/Theories about the Nature and State of Bomadil (Tom) - Page 3

***Khamûl*** · 06-20-2002, 11:35 PM

That's an interesting theory. It also tries to answer the "Who's Oldest in Middle-Earth" question.

Quote:

Treebeard can be the oldest living thing while Tom is truly "oldest and fatherless," but only if Tom is not alive. Since he's there anyway, dancing around and singing to beat the band, we should rephrase that a bit: Tom does not live in Middle Earth, though he has a house there.

I like the last line.

As I said earlier, my opinions are coming soon.

Radagast The Brown · 06-21-2002, 04:50 PM

Maybe bombadil was Radagast The Brown? He looked like Tom Bombadil in purpose and save people from death lots of times - and did his mission that he got from the Valar? and maybe Goldberry was Saruman, no, one of the Istari from the east?

and maybe not.

Christiana · 06-22-2002, 12:35 AM

Actually,Galadriels older than Treebeard, she just wasnt on Middle Earth the whole time.

Ñólendil · 06-22-2002, 03:55 AM

What is Tom Bombadil?

Do Elves have pointed ears?

Do Balrogs have wings?

These are some of the questions we need to gather into a pile, throw into a rocket ship and send it smack-dead into the fiery Sun.

Jesus, Moses, Muhammad and Buddha.

[Well if I'm going to use someone's name in vain I ought at least to be inclusive.]

Christiana · 06-22-2002, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil

Do Elves have pointed ears?

yes.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil

Do Balrogs have wings?

no.

Radagast The Brown · 06-22-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Christina
no.

I think yes, but we won't argue on this subject now, but I do agree with Nolendil.

***Khamûl*** · 06-22-2002, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
What is Tom Bombadil?

Do Elves have pointed ears?

Do Balrogs have wings?

These are some of the questions we need to gather into a pile, throw into a rocket ship and send it smack-dead into the fiery Sun.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop?

Back on the subject: I'm now in the process of reading the Silmarillion, and I'm kind of leaning toward the theory that Tom is Aulë.

Cirdan · 06-22-2002, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
What is Tom Bombadil?

Do Elves have pointed ears?

Do Balrogs have wings?

These are some of the questions we need to gather into a pile, throw into a rocket ship and send it smack-dead into the fiery Sun.

Nope, the Sun is too close. A distant galaxy, please. One with a huge black hole in the center; the ultimate target that would destroy them forever.

Maybe a new rule to the new rules. Top ten dead mules that shall not be beaten here.

Christiana · 06-22-2002, 11:57 PM

What the...

Cirdan · 06-23-2002, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christiana
What the...

do a search on "Balrog wings" and count the threads....

***Khamûl*** · 06-23-2002, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christiana
What the...

Perhaps you mean the "beating dead mules" thing. It's a saying that means that you keep talking about long-debated and unanswerable questions, or questions that have already been answered and things that have been decided. It's related to "running something into the ground", if you've heard that one. I've never heard of beating a dead mule. Horses, maybe, but not mules. Interesting.

Play Girl · 06-23-2002, 11:03 AM

Well I always wondered if Tom had a belly button?
luv
Play Girl
xxx

osszie · 06-23-2002, 10:09 PM

Tom is often seen as an enigma - and of course proof of Tolkiens own thoughts are very scanty

We know that Tolkien "borrowed" from many existing mythologies and I think that Bombadil is another case of this, the oldest beliefs that of elemental power

Tom is Tolkiens version of the earth elemental

Goldberry, water of course

Sauron, fire

As to air? Gwahir possibly? Not sure on that one

As for either (the so called 5th element) the ring seems to cover that

Christiana · 06-23-2002, 11:30 PM

hmmm,the Ainur were made from the flame inperishible.The eagles were Mandos's messengers.

Khadrane · 07-03-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop?

I swear, someday I'm going to figure that out.

samwiselvr2008 · 07-05-2002, 02:47 PM

about the tom bombadil/Witch King's thery, tom would have taken the Ring if he was evil!

now you gonna say that Frodo is evil arn't you

Comic Book Guy · 07-05-2002, 07:56 PM

Quote:

now you gonna say that Frodo is evil arn't you

Yes.

Ñólendil · 07-05-2002, 08:12 PM

Quote:

The eagles were Mandos's messengers.

You mean Manwe.

Christiana · 07-05-2002, 09:07 PM

Gak!!!curse the letter "M" u can view other mixups of that in "thranduil the greedy.

Erendis · 07-11-2002, 09:35 PM

As for why Tom cannot be Aulë: at the Council of Elrond, Glorfindel states that:

Quote:

Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not.

How could Aulë, a Vala not be able to defy a Maia?

As for why Bombadil can't be the Witch-King, the Witch-King is a Ringwraith. And we all know that Ringwraiths are not visible. But Tom is visible. And just because the ring hadno effect on him doesn't mean he was teh Witch-King either because the ring did have an effect on him. It controlled him (the Nine were under the one). And next, why did Tom help the Hobbits and not take the ring if he was the Witch-King? And as for "they are never seen together"-- Denethor and Frodo are never seen together. Does that make them one and the same? Don't think so.

Tom cannot be a Maiar because the ring effects them. Even the most powerful. Look at Sauron! And Saruman! And this is teh reason that Gandalf will not take the ring-- it will effect him!

Ha can't be one of the Blue Istari because:
1) the Blue Istari have no names in Middle-earth (their names in Valinor are Pallando and Alatar)
2)The Blue Istari travelled into teh east with Saruman but never returned--Tolkien stated this himself in The Unfinished Tales.
3)The Istari are Maiar

He is not Illuvatar because:

Quote:

There is no 'embodiment' of the Creator in this story or mythology.

Quote:

The One does not physically inhabit any part of Ea.

.

So, wondering who I think Tom is then? I know he is an enigma, but we can always speculate. I read an interesting theory on a discussion board that came up with this (I'm arguing this person's theory just as they did...word for word...):

Tom is. (It'll make more sense later)

Quote:

He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

And when did the Dark Lord (Melkor) come?

Quote:

Melkor too was there from the first

So Morgoth came in right away-- was the of first ones in.

What else was there before th Valar?

Quote:

But when the Valar Entered into Eä they were at first astounded and at a loss, for it was as if naught was yet made which they had seen in vision, and all was but on pointto begin and yet unshaped, and it was dark.

Nothing except for Eä.

How can Tom manage to be around before the Dark Lord when the Dark Lord was the first thing into Eä?

I would say, now, that it is because Tom is Eä, or at least an embodiment thereof.

Quote:

Power to defy our Enemy is not in [Tom], unless such power is in the Earth itself.

Quote:

Eä: The World, the material Universe; Eä, meaning in Elvish 'It is'

Tom is.

Once again, the theory is not mine.

06-21-2002, 04:50 PM	#42
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Maybe bombadil was Radagast The Brown? He looked like Tom Bombadil in purpose and save people from death lots of times - and did his mission that he got from the Valar? and maybe Goldberry was Saruman, no, one of the Istari from the east? and maybe not. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

06-22-2002, 12:35 AM	#43
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Actually,Galadriels older than Treebeard, she just wasnt on Middle Earth the whole time. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-22-2002, 03:55 AM	#44
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	What is Tom Bombadil? Do Elves have pointed ears? Do Balrogs have wings? These are some of the questions we need to gather into a pile, throw into a rocket ship and send it smack-dead into the fiery Sun. Jesus, Moses, Muhammad and Buddha. [Well if I'm going to use someone's name in vain I ought at least to be inclusive.] __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

06-22-2002, 11:57 PM	#49
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	What the... __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-23-2002, 11:03 AM	#52
Play Girl Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: If I told you I would have to kill you Posts: 159	Well I always wondered if Tom had a belly button? luv Play Girl xxx __________________ "Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives!

06-23-2002, 10:09 PM	#53
osszie Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 409	Tom is often seen as an enigma - and of course proof of Tolkiens own thoughts are very scanty We know that Tolkien "borrowed" from many existing mythologies and I think that Bombadil is another case of this, the oldest beliefs that of elemental power Tom is Tolkiens version of the earth elemental Goldberry, water of course Sauron, fire As to air? Gwahir possibly? Not sure on that one As for either (the so called 5th element) the ring seems to cover that

06-23-2002, 11:30 PM	#54
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	hmmm,the Ainur were made from the flame inperishible.The eagles were Mandos's messengers. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

07-05-2002, 02:47 PM	#56
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	about the tom bombadil/Witch King's thery, tom would have taken the Ring if he was evil! now you gonna say that Frodo is evil arn't you __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

07-05-2002, 09:07 PM	#59
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Gak!!!curse the letter "M" u can view other mixups of that in "thranduil the greedy. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
REAL debate thread for RELIGION	Ruinel	General Messages	1439	04-01-2005 02:47 PM
The Anti-theist Thread	afro-elf	General Messages	1123	05-09-2002 03:46 PM
Final Statements: The Nature of Truth	Elysha	General Messages	24	02-05-2001 12:13 AM