03-01-2006, 09:16 PM | #41 | |
Spaceman Spiff
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03-02-2006, 08:17 AM | #42 |
Hobbit
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Quote posted by Olmer:
The fact is that we don't know how succesful was Gandalf in his pesuasion of common Men. But we know that Aragorn was "dancing to his pipe", also Theoden and Faramir. Only smart and experienced Denethor saw his "true colour" and treated him with distrust, apprehending Mithrandir's schemes to supplant him (which turned out not to be baseless) . Also the wise, silver-tongued Rohan king's councellor did not let himself to be fooled by Gandalf, for what he earned his new name -Wormtongue, given , of course, by Gandalf. Smart and experienced Denethor? I would describe him as proud and jealous. He took an oath to rule Gondor until the kings returned, bu when that looked like happening he decided he didn't want to lose his power. Wormtoungue didn't let himself be fooled by Gandalf? Implying that everyone who followed and trusted Gandalf were fooled by him. Why do you think Gandalf is scheming for his own benefit? Wormtoungue, as is said in UT, administered subtle poisons to Theoden. He doesn't seem that nice.
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God, who made thee mighty, Make thee mightier yet. Last edited by arvedui_last_king : 03-02-2006 at 08:21 AM. |
03-02-2006, 11:33 AM | #43 | |
Elf Lord
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Gandalf must have used some pretty wicked mind controll spells to make Theoden to come so fast to such kind of conclusion . By the way, Gandalf knew of Saruman's war potentials, he had been there, and his advise to go to Isengard and fight against the whole army, was equal to send men to a manslaughter. Not to mention that his "advise" to leave behind utterly defenceless women and children, the very essence, the future of Rohan, knowing that behind "comes a very storm of Mordor"made me suspect that Gandalf's intentions toward Rohan was not entirely benign, they just had been used as pawns in his chess-game. |
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03-02-2006, 02:22 PM | #44 | ||||
Elf Lord
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Gordis, I agree with you on Nazgul's motivations on the Weathertop.
So, the lights and flames were just Gandalf's brags about his pyrotechnic skill, kind like his water-horses boasting. Quote:
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The last King of Gondor was Earnur. The Dunedain's Council of Gondor refused Arvedui's claim for the crown, and he had more Isildur's blood that "the last of ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity". And they had been absolutely right in this decision, otherwise Gondor's future would be as bleak as Arnor's. But instead of shrinking and falling apart under the rule of Isildur's straight lineage descendants , the Kings of Gondor expanded and enpowered their realm. How much of Isildur's blood was in the veins of Aragorn is a big question.I guess, enough to summon the Dead Army. He won the support of gondoreans by winning the battle, and not by argumenting his pretense to be the King by brandishing re-forged Narsil. But without help of elves and wizard he would be still wandering around Eriador and sleeping under trees. Last edited by Olmer : 03-02-2006 at 02:30 PM. |
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03-02-2006, 04:54 PM | #45 | |||
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03-02-2006, 05:00 PM | #46 | |
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03-02-2006, 05:12 PM | #47 | ||
Hobbit
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Arvedui Last King!!!
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God, who made thee mighty, Make thee mightier yet. Last edited by arvedui_last_king : 03-02-2006 at 05:14 PM. |
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03-02-2006, 06:11 PM | #48 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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03-03-2006, 05:29 PM | #49 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Aragorn hears the howling and cries "Wargs" They are called alternatively "wargs" and "wolves" until after the fight, when their bodies disappear and Gandalf says: `It is as I feared. These were no ordinary wolves!' So what were these spirits? Lesser maiar, corrupted Elvish fëar inhabiting wolf bodies, human fëar, something else? |
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03-03-2006, 05:38 PM | #50 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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03-03-2006, 07:44 PM | #51 | |
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03-04-2006, 09:25 AM | #52 | |
Hobbit
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Last edited by arvedui_last_king : 03-04-2006 at 09:27 AM. |
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03-04-2006, 10:44 AM | #53 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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At the time of Arvedui, there were still direct descendants of Anarion in Gondor, Earnil was a direct descendant of Telumehtar Umbardacil, so he clearly had precedence over Arvedui. At the time of Aragorn, no father to son descendants of Anarion could claim the throne, so Aragorn claimed the throne as a descendant of Elendil, the High King of both Arnor and Gondor. |
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03-04-2006, 02:12 PM | #54 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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12-17-2007, 10:38 AM | #55 | |
Elven Warrior
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12-17-2007, 03:04 PM | #56 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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That is quite possible, CAB. We are returning to the "Evil Maia theory".
I have just reread the thread (isn't it your first one, CAB? ) - a good thread it is, there are few now that interesting *sigh*. |
12-17-2007, 04:09 PM | #57 | |
Elven Warrior
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12-18-2007, 02:51 AM | #58 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Ok, I will see to it, thanks, CAB.
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12-18-2007, 12:20 PM | #59 |
Elf Lord
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On another hand, after comparing texts in the "Hobbit" and in the "FotR" I came to conclusion that by all Tolkien's indications it was the stone giants who were making a small avalachie. A few sentences later after a description of the snowstorm Tolkien gives us a hint that this is not doing of Sauron or Saruman.
"There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have a little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron. Some have been in the world longer than he."(FotR) I am pretty sure that he meant to include the stone giants in this story, but he has left for us a little enigma by withholding the identity of the hostile power, and at the same time giving an explicit clue. Still, it is a question of their origin. Could be very well the servants of Melkor ( as CABsuggested), or quite independent entities.
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Uruk-hai, or the journey to there. Last edited by Olmer : 12-18-2007 at 12:21 PM. |
12-29-2007, 04:56 PM | #60 |
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Well before the movies came out, I thought it was most likely Saruman who caused the storm in an effort to prompt the Fellowship to take an overland path bringing them closer to Isenguard and the lands under Saruman's domain. That they would risk the mines - and also, thereby, the Ring - was just not something I thought Saruman was expecting.
To those of you who ruled out Saruman as the cause: on what grounds? P.S. I can't believe how much of the LOTR dialog - book and movie - has made it into the general parlance in my home. We actually call each other to the dinner table with statements like, "Come to dinner - my wife Jackie will show you a royal welcome!," and, "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!: |