Faith and Fantasy - Page 3

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-10-2003, 07:18 PM

Huh?

Where on earth did you get THAT idea? The idea of witnessing is not to buy oneself a bigger palace. The idea of witnessing is that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" "God would that none may perish" "He sent His only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life". The idea of witnessing is not anything so selfish as adding a room to a heavenly palace. It is that, according to our beliefs, Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father except by me." Uch, I could go on for a long time, but I just do not want to. But I am still absolutely flabberghasted as to where you cooked up that concoction.

Continual starting of thread...and what other threads have I started based on my religion?

Sorry to disappoint you, but Christianity is not about selfishness.

Not Anti-Christian? So you are not against Evil, and it's just okay with you?

Elfhelm · 04-10-2003, 07:51 PM

You know, if the milk goes sour, it's still milk, but you shouldn't drink it. I like milk just as much as you. I'm just advising you to sniff before drinking, man.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-10-2003, 07:53 PM

Um...sorry, but as my title tells, I'm halfwitted. Wha???

Elfhelm · 04-10-2003, 07:54 PM

Matthew 7: 15-30

You know what I mean, don't play dumb.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-10-2003, 07:59 PM

Who said anything about playing?

I feel compelled to point out that there are but twenty-nine verses.

Okay, now I know what you're talking about, but I still fail to see what it has to do with this...

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-11-2003, 04:44 PM

Anywho, if you want proselytisation, look at Black Breathelizer! He's a religious fanatic, if ever I saw one!

Anglorfin · 04-11-2003, 07:05 PM

Whether or not Tolkien put stuff in on purpose or whether it was subliminal is not the issue. Christianity in the books isn't even an issue. Tolkien couldn't create a totally non-allegorical work however hard he tried, because for his story to sound realistic it needed those aspects that would typically define ANY culture, including religion or mythology. So to an extent it is there, it just depends on how hard you want to look.

Elfhelm · 04-11-2003, 07:39 PM

Yeah, but Beren's hand and Tyr's hand, Fenrir and Carcaroth ... it's Nordic, not Christian.

There are many more examples I could give, while those who are going with the Christian one are basically only saying that Sam was the meek and he is inheriting the earth, and only Christianity has the value about caring for one another, etc. so if ever anyone cares about someone else, it must be Christian. (rolly eyeballs)

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-11-2003, 10:49 PM

I think what you want is

.

Indeed, Tolkien's mythology has a very, very strong Nordic base. I never said that it is was based on Christian stories, like Phillip and the Ethopian, or Peter and Simon the sorcerer. It is a beautiful retelling of Nordic mythology from a Christian world-view.

Elfhelm, two questions: Where is Eru in Nordic mythology? First impulse (for me, at any rate) would be to say Odin, but Odin's place is taken by Manwe. So where is Eru?
Secondly: Where did you get that thing about witnessing?

I'm totally stumped on that one.

Anglorfin · 04-11-2003, 11:43 PM

Nobody said that Tolkien modelled any mythology perfectly or even on purpose. It's just there in his books because it has to be, but it's still uniquely Tolkien despite all the parallelisms we make.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-11-2003, 11:47 PM

Amen and amen!

04-10-2003, 07:18 PM	#41
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Huh? Where on earth did you get THAT idea? The idea of witnessing is not to buy oneself a bigger palace. The idea of witnessing is that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" "God would that none may perish" "He sent His only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life". The idea of witnessing is not anything so selfish as adding a room to a heavenly palace. It is that, according to our beliefs, Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father except by me." Uch, I could go on for a long time, but I just do not want to. But I am still absolutely flabberghasted as to where you cooked up that concoction. Continual starting of thread...and what other threads have I started based on my religion? Sorry to disappoint you, but Christianity is not about selfishness. Not Anti-Christian? So you are not against Evil, and it's just okay with you? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-10-2003, 07:51 PM	#42
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	You know, if the milk goes sour, it's still milk, but you shouldn't drink it. I like milk just as much as you. I'm just advising you to sniff before drinking, man. __________________ cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 04-10-2003 at 07:52 PM.

04-10-2003, 07:53 PM	#43
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Um...sorry, but as my title tells, I'm halfwitted. Wha??? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-10-2003, 07:54 PM	#44
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Matthew 7: 15-30 You know what I mean, don't play dumb. __________________ cya

04-10-2003, 07:59 PM	#45
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Who said anything about playing? I feel compelled to point out that there are but twenty-nine verses. Okay, now I know what you're talking about, but I still fail to see what it has to do with this... __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-11-2003, 04:44 PM	#46
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Anywho, if you want proselytisation, look at Black Breathelizer! He's a religious fanatic, if ever I saw one! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-11-2003, 07:05 PM	#47
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Whether or not Tolkien put stuff in on purpose or whether it was subliminal is not the issue. Christianity in the books isn't even an issue. Tolkien couldn't create a totally non-allegorical work however hard he tried, because for his story to sound realistic it needed those aspects that would typically define ANY culture, including religion or mythology. So to an extent it is there, it just depends on how hard you want to look. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

04-11-2003, 07:39 PM	#48
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Yeah, but Beren's hand and Tyr's hand, Fenrir and Carcaroth ... it's Nordic, not Christian. There are many more examples I could give, while those who are going with the Christian one are basically only saying that Sam was the meek and he is inheriting the earth, and only Christianity has the value about caring for one another, etc. so if ever anyone cares about someone else, it must be Christian. (rolly eyeballs) __________________ cya

04-11-2003, 10:49 PM	#49
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I think what you want is . Indeed, Tolkien's mythology has a very, very strong Nordic base. I never said that it is was based on Christian stories, like Phillip and the Ethopian, or Peter and Simon the sorcerer. It is a beautiful retelling of Nordic mythology from a Christian world-view. Elfhelm, two questions: Where is Eru in Nordic mythology? First impulse (for me, at any rate) would be to say Odin, but Odin's place is taken by Manwe. So where is Eru? Secondly: Where did you get that thing about witnessing? I'm totally stumped on that one. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-11-2003, 11:43 PM	#50
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Nobody said that Tolkien modelled any mythology perfectly or even on purpose. It's just there in his books because it has to be, but it's still uniquely Tolkien despite all the parallelisms we make. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

04-11-2003, 11:47 PM	#51
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Amen and amen! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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