06-07-2003, 03:41 PM | #41 | |
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06-07-2003, 03:54 PM | #42 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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2) Oy....I must be doing an awful job of saying what I mean. I'm not talking about specifics, but about faith in that which we cannot see, and in higher powers. I'm talking a very general thing, here. Obviously, it doesn't mean that I worship other gods (though my brother does ocassionally pray to Moradin, the D&D god of Dwarves ) I'm not talking about specific things, I am talking quite simply about Faith in the unknown, faith in that which we cannot see, and so forth. How many of you atheists can honestly say that you consider "blind faith" to be a GOOD thing?
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06-07-2003, 03:57 PM | #43 | |
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2) Am I really doing such a bad job of expressing myself? Do you think that believing in something such as a god, gods, etc. is a good thing? Is Blind Faith a positive attribute?
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06-07-2003, 04:04 PM | #44 | |
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2) Don't forget that LOTR is set in this world a long time ago. 3) Depending on what you mean by a "religious work", I may or m ay not agree with you. 4) 5) Sounds quite interesting; I'll have to investigate it. Which part is ridiculous, by the way?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-07-2003, 04:12 PM | #45 | |
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2) Do you mean religion and faith within the story, or "Message", as you call it? 3) Except that many, many people believe that the Bible is true, whereas it's restricted to a few cults for fantasy.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-07-2003, 04:13 PM | #46 |
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As far as I can see what Gwaimir is talking about here is a more general predilection than a specific identification between any particular religion and any individual fantasy work.
Again, reasonably you would think that the correlation exists- secular/agnostic types should be more drawn to SF; spiritual/religious to fantasy. I'm not sure it does. I'm a secular humanist naturalist left-winger; my favorite writers are ironic Tories- Jane Austen, Anthony Trollope - or reactionary Christians- Dosteovski, Tolkien.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
06-07-2003, 04:24 PM | #47 | |
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2) The result of faith, perhaps, but the actual result of God, Gods, etc. is rarely capable of being seen, and explained away when it is. 3) I hope you understand that my intention was not to insult you. I had no idea that you would consider someone thinking you are an atheist as insulting. I sincerely and humbly offer my apologies. All I knew was that you said you no longer called yourself Christian, and that you were searching for something which was right for you. 4) By spirituality, do you mean meditation, yoga, and such? 5) It means and/or in English, to the best of my knowledge; I've just come to look upon it as a simpler version of &. My apologies. 6) I apologise; I merely intended that as a joke. I also apologise about referring to you in third person. BoP, I hope that's not too many points; one more, and I would have split it.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 06-07-2003 at 05:48 PM. |
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06-07-2003, 04:36 PM | #48 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-07-2003, 05:37 PM | #49 | |
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06-07-2003, 05:42 PM | #50 | |
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-07-2003, 05:49 PM | #51 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-07-2003, 07:20 PM | #52 |
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Gwai. You asked me a question, do I think that 'blind faith' is an admirable attribute.
My answer is going to catch a lot of flack... but no... I do not, but it depends on your meaning. I'm defining 'blind faith' as a faith or trust in something or someone you know nothing about, or have no evidence to support a claim. This is how con artists rob their marks. So, no... if this is your definition also, I do not think it is an admirable attribute. |
06-07-2003, 07:32 PM | #53 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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That question was addressed to all of the atheists on this board; thanks, Ruinel, for answering.
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06-07-2003, 08:01 PM | #54 |
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I agree with Ruinel -- I don't see 'blind faith' as a good thing. Faith, for those who have it, should be held with eyes, mind and heart wide open.
I used to be agnostic like GrayMouser. Now I'm a devout atheist. I think I understand your question Gwai, and it's an interesting one. Bottom line for me, however, is whether or not the story is good. I think it is possible that for those whose lives are centered on a spiritual belief system there may be a predilection for faith-based narrative, but that's all. Just a tendency that way. There is a form of 'Blind Faith' I have always respected -- the band from the 60s -- and the first LP I ever bought...
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06-07-2003, 08:05 PM | #55 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-07-2003, 08:53 PM | #56 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 06-07-2003 at 09:08 PM. |
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06-07-2003, 09:02 PM | #57 | ||
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OH NO!!! NOT THAT DEBATE AGAIN!!!
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) |
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06-07-2003, 11:35 PM | #58 |
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*Smacks Gwaimir on the upside of his head* IDEOLOGY, idiot!
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06-07-2003, 11:37 PM | #59 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Atheists just say it isn't a religion so they're free from the separation of Church and State. So nyah.
Okay, maybe we better stop before this goes too far...
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-08-2003, 01:34 AM | #60 |
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(knowingly getting off-topic here)
In fact, atheism is hardly even an ideology. Postmodernist atheists reject the entire concept of ideology as it is. And you can't call it a religion because atheism is not doctrinally unified in any way. For example, Buddhists are atheists. (Heck, even Jedi are atheists.) And the whole definition of religion is predicated on organized sets of beliefs common to people; an individual spin on an atheistic model is not religious. To model it in a more understandable fashion: a vacuum is not an object or set of objects. It is the lack thereof. Similarly, atheism is the lack of a belief in deities. There are atheist religions, but atheism itself is not a religion. What a preposterously misunderstood fallacy. Don't bother arguing with me. I'm right. Now back on the subject of fantasy...
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