10-04-2006, 08:47 PM | #41 |
Sapling
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14
|
Gil-Galad all the way. The House of Fingolfin acquited itself well despite the Doom of the Noldor, and Gil is no exception.
Celebrimbor, on the other hand, shares much of the flaws of the House of Feanor, and his cozying up to Annatar is but the shining example. In many ways, Celebrimbor is the patsy of the entire second and third ages, allowing the Rings to be crafted and used to pervert much of Middle Earth.
__________________
I am a servant of the Secret Fire. |
10-05-2006, 02:30 AM | #42 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
he wasn't being a 'patsy'. he was being a reble, just like grandad was.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
10-05-2006, 07:56 PM | #43 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14
|
Quote:
Melkor tweaked Feanor (and others) enough to cause a massive rift between the Noldor and the Valar. Sauron fooled Celembrimbor into creating the rings, leading to ages of strife and struggle. While it cannot be said Celembrimbor intentionally did evil, his actions certainly led to it. He got played, due to his lust for power and glory. Gil-Galad on the other hand had no such failings.
__________________
I am a servant of the Secret Fire. |
|
10-06-2006, 01:45 AM | #44 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
exept for waiting for half the third age to tell the numenorians what the hell they were fighting for. and thus allowing 9 of their lords to become nazgul.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
10-06-2006, 08:56 AM | #45 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
all the Nazgul weren't Numenorians. only 3 were. Khamul was an Easterling |
|
10-06-2006, 11:46 AM | #46 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
thanks for correcting me. the point is, they still allowed three of their allies to be seduced by the person they were fighting against.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
10-06-2006, 01:34 PM | #47 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
10-06-2006, 02:45 PM | #48 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
10-06-2006, 03:04 PM | #49 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
yeah, but at the time the rings of powers were handed out, the numenorians were still friends to the elves. i mean, look what they'd just rescued them from. saurons ever increasing power.
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
10-06-2006, 03:30 PM | #50 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
Quote:
Sauron kept his plans secret, therefore the handing over of the rings was not known, so no specific warning was possible to start with. On the other hand, the thirst for power that was building in those three numenoreans would have blinded their reason, even if there was some sort of a general warning. |
|
10-06-2006, 04:27 PM | #51 |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
Posts: 2,609
|
Yeah, but a general anouncement once they finished the war "we were fighting over some magic rings. if anyone tries to give you a ring, don't accept it".
__________________
Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. |
01-24-2007, 09:56 AM | #52 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Quote:
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
|
12-16-2007, 02:53 PM | #53 |
Enting
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nargothrond
Posts: 71
|
Greetings
My vote goes for Gil-Galad.
|
12-18-2007, 02:59 PM | #54 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Jammy was SOO right!
I vote against both. The Elves don't deserve a High King. |
02-08-2011, 09:14 PM | #55 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Celebrimbor is the one true king, period.
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
02-11-2011, 07:03 PM | #56 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
|
Celebrimbor was senior to Erenion Gil Galad under any of the patterns of kingship descent I am familiar with, from primogenitor to the brother to brother to nephew type of the Anlgo Saxons, with Salic Law or non Salic law. It is a heavy question as to why he was not High King after the end of the the War of the Great Jewels and the pardon of the Noldor. I suspect it is tied up with why he led many Noldor into a separate enclave in Eregion after the war. I believe it is the remaining racial and political animosity between the Feanorians and the Sindar most imporantly, but also the with the Laequendi and the other Noldor. The preponderating majority of the population of the remaining and very blended Belriand kingdom, Lindon, were Sindar and Laequnendi, and they would not acept a Feanorian king. The aminosity between the Feanorians and them, and the other Noldor, led to the few remaining Feanorians packing up and leaving for new lands, but the centeo of Eldarian power remained with the vastly larger Beleriandic population of Lindon.
The best consistant rule I could discern with for the "High Kingship" is which prince clearly wielded the greatest military power, and Gil Galad had many times that of Celebrimbor. The 'High Kingship" in Middle Earth had become first and formost a a military power postion, and it was Gil Galad who held that power, as it had previously been Fingolfin, than Fingon, then Turgon.
__________________
Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 09-22-2011 at 01:36 PM. |
10-16-2011, 02:56 PM | #57 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 24
|
I vote for Gil-Galad.. I sympathise more with him than with Celebrimbor. But maybe that has to do with the fact that I absolutely don't like the House of Fëanor and my big love for the Valar. :')
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Visitors Come to Court | Valandil | Writer's Workshop | 56 | 01-27-2010 11:29 AM |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, parts 2 and 3 | Forkbeard | LOTR Discussion Project | 12 | 12-28-2007 07:10 AM |
Book VI, ch. IV & V: The Field of Cormallen; The Steward and the King | Landroval | LOTR Discussion Project | 17 | 12-13-2007 05:14 PM |
Aragorn and "Tar-" King Name | alhaQQ | Middle Earth | 7 | 03-05-2007 05:14 PM |
Scarcely Heard of the King in these parts | TreebeardQuickbeam | The Hobbit (book) | 3 | 06-07-2006 06:50 AM |