08-17-2002, 06:38 PM | #41 |
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The Choice
How does the Choice work exactly? For example, did Arwen actually make the choice with Aragorn right before the Fellowship set out from Rivendell? What was the significance of Arwen giving Aragorn her pendant?
You know you're confused when all your sentances end with question marks. |
08-18-2002, 03:30 AM | #42 |
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There is no rule regarding the choices, the cases are all special.
In the book, Arwen made her choice almost 40 years before the journey of the Fellowship, when she and Aragorn plighted their troth(sp?) upon Cerin Amroth in Lorien. Her choice became irreversable when Elrond sailed over sea. I think it is suggested that her twin brothers Elladan and Elrohir for some reason were admitted to delay their choice.
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08-18-2002, 11:59 AM | #43 |
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i remember reading about her neclace somewhere
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08-20-2002, 12:36 PM | #44 | |
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If you think about it, Luthien and Tour could be construed as "trading", though of course only if you view Mandos as a sort of bean-counter.
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08-20-2002, 04:40 PM | #45 | |
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08-20-2002, 09:47 PM | #46 |
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No, it would be a tad unsubtle to come right out and say it.
But I suppose it is a matter of interpretation.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
08-21-2002, 08:03 AM | #47 | |
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08-22-2002, 06:12 AM | #48 | |
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Yes, in my opinion, yes. That's my point. In the Lord of the Rings Celebrimbor is "descended from Fëanor", and the story that developed included his sojourn in Nargothrond, and he never lived in Gondolin. He was not of Fingolfin's people, but was Fëanor's grandson. Therefore the story about the Elessar being made by Celebrimbor of Gondolin should not be accepted.
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08-28-2002, 02:40 AM | #49 |
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I know Tolkien might have said Arwen gave away her place, but - I see it more as (....especially after reading the Appendixes carefully) - that she really thought about sailing back. There WAS another ship, as I recall, that Legolas and Gimli took, but - I think she was too distraught to think of finding out about it.
I think she felt shame when she thought of going back on her promise to Aragorn, and in the end, did the "noble" thing. The necklace and the Elessar being mixed up in the movie made me cringe. I wish they'd just stick to the facts! |
08-28-2002, 04:22 PM | #50 |
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There were indeed still ships left in the Grey Havens in the Fourth Age, for not everybody left at the end of the Third. But the ship Gimli and Legolas took was built by Legolas, not the people of CÃ*rdan.
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08-28-2002, 08:19 PM | #51 |
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Wow, didn't Legolas turn out to be the crafty one! Cool. Thanks for that info!
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08-28-2002, 10:47 PM | #52 |
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Arwen did not exactly give away her place. Tolkien explains in at least one of his letters (two, I think) that Arwen would have consulted with Galadriel and perhaps Gandalf, who in turn would have asked the Valar that special dispensation be granted to Frodo and Bilbo.
By the time Arwen bestowed her gift upon Frodo, the decision to allow him to pass over Sea (if he desired) had been made by higher powers than the Queen of Gondor and Arnor. |
08-29-2002, 12:44 AM | #53 | |
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Elros chose to be human and therefore all his descendants must live with that decision. So by Mathematical formula: M(e)=I/k+g(l)^P(e) Get it?
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08-29-2002, 02:15 PM | #54 |
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Yes I get it, and it makes sense. I just don't like it.
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09-21-2002, 11:23 PM | #55 | |
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Re: The Choice
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09-22-2002, 12:56 AM | #56 |
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Welcome to Entmoot Lefty Scaevola.
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