Dying for Colored Rags

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Coney
If they want to give us a flag that represents the people of the UK then they should just embroider a copy of the Eastenders cast

*shudder*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by sun-star
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I was just wondering which wars you were referring to?



Yes, it was. Who is suggesting otherwise? And why does it matter anyway - I thought we all agreed that countries should and do look after their own interests first

It wasn't directed at you though Sun-Star. I quoted Greymouser because they seem to think that the US didn't get into World War II or do something about Hitler soon enough. My comments had nothing to do with what you said. As a matter of fact - I was going to reply to your post and say I agree with you. I think Europe, however, has negative feelings towards nationalism because of the Soviet Union and Germany. The US less of a negative reaction toward nationalism - to the majority of Ameircans - it's just pride in ones country..

(Also I know this is really nit-picking and pedantic, but it is actually Britain you're referring to and not just England. No reason why anyone here should care, but if you were Scottish you would )

Yes - it is Britain. But you must know that Scottland is also a conquered land by England - as well as Wales and Northern Ireland (which for some reason still fights against the English - maybe it's because they want indepedence - just an idea)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
The new flag proposal looks far too stern and serious IMO :/

That flag sounds like a terrible idea. Who is proposing this flag and do you have a link with a picture of the proposed flag? How in any way shape or form is the current flag not inclusive or how is it exclusive of other people?

Maybe instead of worrying about having a flag with different colors to represent the make up the people of Britain - it would be nice to to see some blacks and Indians in Parliament (who make up a large portion of the British population). Sorry - but Parliament seems very very white to me. I've never seen a black or Indfian parliment member when I see the House of Commons or the House of Lords meeting. Are there any black Lords by the way? I'm just suggesting that might be a place to start. Britain was a very hierical society and I think in some respects (well in most respects) it still is.

[Coney]

I've never seen a black or Indfian parliment member when I see the House of Commons or the House of Lords meeting.

Watch more meetings............enlighten yourself

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Watch more meetings............enlighten yourself

Obviously I do enligthen myself since I watch Parliment when I catch it on. When I went to England - I visted Parliament. Do you watch CSPAN and our congressional meetings all the time or have you ever seen Congress in person? You didn't answer my question though - how many are there?

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Obviously I do enligthen myself since I watch Parliment when I catch it on. When I went to England - I visted Parliament. Do you watch CSPAN and our congressional meetings all the time or have you ever seen Congress in person? You didn't answer my question though - how many are there?

*answered in pm*

[Earniel]

*sigh* Another thread going into the predictable path... I'm getting sooo tired of this... <-- very tired smiley

Anyway...

As for nationalism, I don't think that the principle itself is bad. A feeling of being part of a society, a nation, can be a good. It makes you care about the nation so that you might want to help maintain and keep it.

However it can be taken far too far when it becomes a strife between people just because they're from a different nation. The idea of 'This is our nation, you have nothing to do here, you have nothing to say here so just go away." is rather frightening at times. You can be part of a particular nation but that doesn't mean you can disrespect others who are not. Nor does it mean that you have the right to look only at your own interests. It's only natural to do so but it's sometimes important that you're able to look beyond nations to do things for the greater good.

As for flags, they are very useful symbols for countries because they are used universally. Each nation has a flag, nearly each county or shire has a flag. A flag can be anything a country stands for from its ideas on worldpolicies to its people, or just a piece of coloured cloth. IMO quite ironic actually.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
*answered in pm*

Maybe it's not just me who is interested in the answer - this is a discussion board. I was under the impression we were supposed to discuss things.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Maybe it's not just me who is interested in the answer - this is a discussion board. I was under the impression we were supposed to discuss things.

Indeed

And when someone is interested in discussing it with you....They will contribute to the thread.

I'm not, hence the reply in PM

[Sister Golden Hair]

Perhaps for the sake of the community, and the life of the thread, maybe the two of you should either not discuss, or if you wish to discuss, keep it in PM.

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Perhaps for the sake of the community, and the life of the thread, maybe the two of you should either not discuss, or if you wish to discuss, keep it in PM.

booo, lets see a fight. one that wasnt set up like the mudwrestling fight, a real one.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Perhaps for the sake of the community, and the life of the thread, maybe the two of you should either not discuss, or if you wish to discuss, keep it in PM.

Well actually I was agreeing with him about the flag. He is just overall disagreeable with anything I have to say. So there obviously can not be any conversation between Coney and me - at least civil anyway.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Perhaps for the sake of the community, and the life of the thread, maybe the two of you should either not discuss, or if you wish to discuss, keep it in PM.

I did!

Well actually I was agreeing with him about the flag. He is just overall disagreeable with anything I have to so. So there obviously can not be any conversation between Coney and me - at least civil anyway.

Exactly..........let it drop will ya?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, there ya go then.

[wahine]

Hey now, I'm with gollum #'s.

Let's see who gets kicked first!!!

Just kidding fella's.

Don't hit me with the stick oh sweet wonderful SGH!

[mirrille]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Yeah - you could have grown up under communism in Ukraine. I'm sure you would have loved to have grown up under that. Unlike there - in the United States - if you don't like the country you are free to leave.

Don't make assumptions. Sometimes it's a bit different for immigrants or children of immigrants. You live in 2 cultures. Or more. And that really brings home that it's culture if anything, not nations, that gives you identity. Anyway, I have plenty of friends and relatives who are actually going back to mainland China. Yeah! Spooky communists and all! But in a way, that's very Chinese. They go where the money is and don't really care about the politics as long as it doesn't get in the way of making money. Haha! sometimes I just love my culture! I myself would have loved to go back to HK to work and live, but I was raised in Canada and I have always thought that my Chinese was not good enough to get me a good job there. My spoken is quite respectable. It's mainly my written that's holding me back. And now I'm stuck because I don't think my education and certifications would transfer over there or to the mainland anyway. Or at least there'd be alot of red tape. Maybe when I retire...
I think, like Hasty Ent and Sheeana, I like where I am, it's a nice place to live, as far as places go. A place with very mild weather(cannot be said for the rest of the country ) and gorgeous scenery, which makes things alot easier to take. But just a place. Just some accident that had me born here. It was the difference between a job offer for my Dad that had me born Canadian instead of American, that's all. Nothing magical.
I care about the people. I identify with cultural groups.
I care nothing for borders, nothing for flags.
Well, flags do have their uses, but I just don't treat them like they are magic. I think of them kind of like nametags, but for countries. The flag stands for the country. The country does not stand for the flag. That's just silly.
I do think our flag is very cute. Not very many countries have such a cute flag. I'm glad our flag is at least not ugly or boring.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by mirrille
Don't make assumptions. Sometimes it's a bit different for immigrants or children of immigrants. You live in 2 cultures. Or more. And that really brings home that it's culture if anything, not nations, that gives you identity.

I am only 3rd and 4th generation American (born in this country). i guess it depends how peopel view the world - either they look at their skin color and their ancestors for pride - or they look at who they are and where they live. I have no feelings for Ireland, Poland, Italy , Russia or Czeckloslovaia other than as foreign countries. I have no ties to them what so ever. I however have pride in my ancestors who took a chance in the steerage of ships and came over through Ellis Island. I personally am VERY glad they made that trip in an attempt to make my life better. I am also very happy that they came to a country whcih allowed them in the late 1800's to make a life for themselves and work to better themselves.

I think, like Hasty Ent and Sheeana, I like where I am, it's a nice place to live, as far as places go. A place with very mild weather(cannot be said for the rest of the country ) and gorgeous scenery, which makes things alot easier to take. But just a place. Just some accident that had me born here. It was the difference between a job offer for my Dad that had me born Canadian instead of American, that's all. Nothing magical.
I care about the people. I identify with cultural groups.
I care nothing for borders, nothing for flags.

I think of it differently because I think the US is the best country. We are a microcosm of the world - particularly in the northeast. I'm proud to be an American - and if you are not proud to be a Canadian - that is your choice. I used to not always feel that way until I traveled to other countries, I wanted to move to England the one time. In high school I had all these plans to leave the US and move there - used to even look up airfares. Then I went there - and my mind was changed. That trip made me turn from English history and got me into American History. I was proud of America before - but I had always wanted to be a part of England. I got over it though with my trips to England.

Well, flags do have their uses, but I just don't treat them like they are magic. I think of them kind of like nametags, but for countries. The flag stands for the country. The country does not stand for the flag. That's just silly.
I do think our flag is very cute. Not very many countries have such a cute flag. I'm glad our flag is at least not ugly or boring.

I like our flag - it has historic and symbolic meaning behind it. Each star represtents each state. The thirteen stripes represent the thirteen original states. The red represents the blood shed for our fight for freedom from England.

[Elf Girl]

On the subject of our flag, I think that red, white, and blue are a bit hard on the eyes but otherwise I like it. As a piece of cloth. Not what it stands for, not how it is used.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
On the subject of our flag, I think that red, white, and blue are a bit hard on the eyes but otherwise I like it. As a piece of cloth. Not what it stands for, not how it is used.

What does it stand for and how is it used?

[Elf Girl]

Well, it can stand for anything, but currently people are using it to mean 'I support our government's recent actions'. As you have probably deduced, I do not support many of our government's recent actions. It is often used to demonstrate support for our government's recent actions, which I do not have.