03-02-2003, 03:10 PM | #41 |
the Shrike
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Sam: can I borrow your pans?
*Whack!* Alrighty. Now that BB is out of the way... LOTR is, first and foremost, a story about hobbits. This is why the scouring is an important process of the story -- it shows the maturation of the hobbits as a people.
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03-02-2003, 03:41 PM | #42 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Yes, I'm almost positive that Tolkien said a number of times that the Lord of the Rings was about Hobbits in his letters.
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03-02-2003, 04:06 PM | #43 |
Elf Lord
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Great books -- and movies -- tell a story. This tale is about hobbits but the story's plot is about what the hobbits do.
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03-02-2003, 05:27 PM | #44 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Yes, and the Hobbits rose against Saruman's ruffians and freed the Shire from his grasp!
Haha, got you!
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03-02-2003, 06:09 PM | #45 | |||
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Quote:
As many people already observed, LotR is not about Men. They are just an instrument to tell a story about hobbits, providing useful plot devices. Men are important in LotR, but it's not about them. The story starts and ends with hobbits, it comes full circle. It wouldn't make sense to start with hobbits and end with, say, the marriage of Aragorn and Arwen. So the end can still be good without the Scouring (and this admission was a hard enough comprimise for me) but it will not be great, complete, accurate, perfect, spot on, or amazing. Remember to say "Wow, Nurvingiel, you were right!" next December.
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03-02-2003, 07:32 PM | #46 |
Elf Lord
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The movie trilogy started with the creation of the three elven rings and will end, fittingly enough, with the departure of the three elven rings from Middle-Earth.
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03-02-2003, 07:35 PM | #47 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Aha! So you admit it isn't really The Lord of the Rings.
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03-02-2003, 07:45 PM | #48 |
Elf Lord
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I beg your pardon. My copy of the Fellowship of the Rings starts with the words "Three rings for the elven kings under the sky."
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03-02-2003, 07:48 PM | #49 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Well, mine starts with 'It's been fifteen years at this writing...'
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03-02-2003, 08:21 PM | #50 |
the Shrike
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Hey you two -- stop squabbling or I'll bang your heads together. Ah screw it, I'll settle for smacking BB around the ears.
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03-02-2003, 10:18 PM | #51 | ||
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Why exactly is it right for the Scouring to get deleted? It's perfectly valid to make a 3 1/2 - 4 hour movie, and with all the effort they put into making the rest, I don't think effort is a problem.
Why does Scouring need to go? I'm resigned to seeing it go the way of Tom Bombadil and the Old Forest. In this deletion as well, a little more of the hobbit charm and whimsy was lost.
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03-03-2003, 02:09 AM | #52 |
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The Lord of the Rings was also written by hobbits.
I think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that the scouring is out. Unless PJ secretly decides to film it between now and December. *PJ are you listening? Pretty please?*
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03-03-2003, 09:41 AM | #53 |
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I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The question is, Did PJ Get it Right on the Scouring?
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03-03-2003, 01:25 PM | #54 | ||
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If LotR is all about hobbits, and the part of LotR where hobbits free The Shire from the influence of Mordor, without help from anyone else, then maybe deleting that part isn't the best plan.
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03-03-2003, 09:41 PM | #55 |
Elf Lord
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Jackson's telling of the tale is focused on the destruction of the Ring, not hobbits. The "concerning hobbits" opening wasn't even in the theatrical release so it's hard to effectively argue that hobbits are the movie's focus.
The same holds true for the original novels. The only difference is that Tolkien was SO detailed with his writing that you could make a compelling case that many of his subplots could have been primary motivations for his work. |
03-03-2003, 10:54 PM | #56 |
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No, Tolkien's work was definitely about the Hobbits. If you say PJ's trilogy isn't (which it certainly seems to have made Aragorn more important than Frodo in the second movie to me), then you agree that the LOTR movies are not the same as the LOTR book.
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03-04-2003, 12:30 AM | #57 |
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PJ has said he didn't like the Scouring in the book. Anti-climatic I believe he called it. I don't think he's right about that but neither do I think it's essential to telling the story. The Scouring is a secondary element that can be included or excluded at the discretion of the adaptor. I would put it in my (non-existent) adaption but PJ's movie'll work just fine without it.
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03-04-2003, 12:35 AM | #58 |
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Sure, it'll work. It'll be good. But it won't be TRUE to the original. It won't be GREAT.
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03-04-2003, 12:39 AM | #59 | |
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Quote:
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03-04-2003, 12:52 AM | #60 | |
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Quote:
Still, I think the meaning of the Scouring will be conveyed to the audience by the vastly changed characters of the four hobbits. I seriously doubt that PJ will show them as unchanged by their adventure. So it's Trueness to the book will rest where PJ has claimed it will: thematically. Tolkien remarked that Drama reduces stories to their "human element.'' I believe he was right. The change in the four hobbits will have to stand in for the change in hobbit worldview. Not that it *has* to be that way, but that PJ can be forgiven for doing it his way.
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