Religious Knowledge Thread

[markedel]

Hmmm. Well I have heard Christians argue the "turn the other cheek" line. Actually I was talking about the war in Iraq and mentioned that if someone is trying to kill me or kill you I'm obligated to kill them first under Jewish law.

There have been arguments made by some that Chrisitianity is not monotheistic. But that's something else altogether.

Judaism views salvation and the route to salvation very differently, and it regards non-Jews very differently then non-Christians

Judaism's attitude towards sex and the material world in general is usually more positive then Chrisitianity. The idea of sex is only for procreation is emphatically a non-Jewish concept.

Judaism's views on abortion are not exactly like Christianity. Judaism definitly allows abortion when the mother's life is in danger-and what that means has been widely interpreted to include psycological trauma. Clearly a fetus is not a human being according to the Torah. Abortions are not encouraged are widely permitted-wasting a potential life, is a waste after all. It just isn't murder.

But in an overall "moral" as opposed to theological view religious views and religious Christians will agree more often then not.

Fundementally though Jews have a mission to follow the Torah because they are commanded by God. If they do so they're supposed to be rewarded if they don't they are punished. But there is no original sin in the Christian sense-men have free will to choose between good and evil and do not need some sort of individual redemption through faith. Ultimately if all the Jews did what God tells them (according to Orthodoxy) the ultimate result will be a better world, and messianic redemption-which is a political redemption more then a spiritual one. It is restoration of Israel and Jerusalem, not "the second coming" of Christianity. Christianity as I understand says that people have an original sin that can be eliminated through belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and that they should act morally because Jesus did. The core of Christianity is faith, but the core of Judaism is Torah, which is unique to Judaism.

[Legolaslvr!]

Couldnt this be afennding to the Cathics, Jewish and the other religion!?
*Cough* *Cough* PADLOCK!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I don't know that it's an obligation, but I have never heard a Christian say not to kill in self-defence. The 'turn the other cheek' is dealing with other, less serious issues.

Christians would disagree on that. But that's getting more into religious discussion, rather than learning more about other faiths.

Christians do not believe that sex is only for procreation, either. At least, not the ones I know.

Not quite right. Christians believe that when Adam fell, sin was introduced into mankind. It isn't eliminated through just belief in Jesus, but acceptance of Him as Saviour. And the core of Christianity is not faith (though that is important) so much as Christ.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Wot do you think is offensive to CathOLics and Jews?

[Legolaslvr!]

Well ur talkin' about them and I shud know I am a cathloic!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Talking about them? What has been said that is offensive to Catholics? All that has been discussed regarding Catholics is ecclesiastical hierarchy and 'Bless me, father, for I have sinned', right? Which part of that is offensive?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by markedel

There have been arguments made by some that Chrisitianity is not monotheistic. But that's something else altogether.

That's only because they don't understand the concept of "The Father, the Son and the holy spirit" It's a confusing concept which most "outsiders" don't understand. In religion class this was discussed a lot.

As for Tolkien - I read him because I remembered a movie about a dragon and dwarves. In eighth grade I went to the book mobile and searched for that book and amazingly they had it on the van - I didn't even know what the title of the movie or the book was while I was looking. I was just reading all the backs of the books to see if anything resembled what was in the movie. My mother and father then got me the Lord of the Rings boxed set for Christmas. I knew nothing about Tolkien's religion.

[markedel]

Well I have question for Christians. I'm curious where is the authorized translation of the bible from? I mean I've read lots of different translations and interpretations of this and that. Do differnet denominations have different sets? Is there one or two dominant translations? Or is it more of a read it as you like kind of thing? (I mean denominationally, I assume every group has their own spin as it were).

[Legolaslvr!]

I dont know its just ofensive!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The dominant translation of the Bible I would say is the King James Version, or KJV for short. I'm not sure, is that what you're asking?

I'm sorry, all I want is to learn more about those of other beliefs. I'm sorry if you find this to be offensive.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by markedel
But there is no original sin in the Christian sense-men have free will to choose between good and evil and do not need some sort of individual redemption through faith. Ultimately if all the Jews did what God tells them (according to Orthodoxy) the ultimate result will be a better world, and messianic redemption-which is a political redemption more then a spiritual one. It is restoration of Israel and Jerusalem, not "the second coming" of Christianity. Christianity as I understand says that people have an original sin that can be eliminated through belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and that they should act morally because Jesus did. The core of Christianity is faith, but the core of Judaism is Torah, which is unique to Judaism.

The concept of original sin is in Judaism. That is why in Judaism, as far as I know, you are waiting outside the gates of heaven. You're waiting for the first coming to be absolved of original sin.

Jesus absolved original sin through baptism - starting with John the Baptist. Jews are waiting for the first coming and don't believe Jesus was the son of God. But they're still waiting to be forgiven for original sin - until that time - jews feel they can not enter heaven.

I'm atheist now but this knowledge comes from learning about various religions in schools - particuaarly how Christianity was the next phase of Judaism. Chirstianity is BASED on the Jewish faith - "we" even share the same bible until the New Testement.

Also - it is very difficult to talk about Christianity as being a single religion. There are a lot of offshoots to this. Lutherans claim that Jesus didn't really turn water into wine at a wedding - he turned it into grape juice. In their religion - drinking is a problem. In Catholism - during communion you will be given WINE and the Eucharist which represents the body and blood of Christ and is a reenactment of the last supper. Some Christian Religions don't take communion at every mass - Catholics do. Some Christian Religions - such as Pentecostal say that woman should wear only long hair, shirts and wear no makeup. No where is this in Catholism. You can not say Christianity believes this - or doesn't believe this or follows a certain set of rules, unless you specify the particular Christian Religion you are talking about.

Catholism is actually one of the most, if not the most, accepting of the Christian Religions. Catholics don't practice recruitment and generally accept others beliefs. Of course this wasn't always the case - concidering the occurence of The Inquisition.

The same diversity exists in Judaism. All the different factions of Judaism may be based on the Torah - but there are some that interpret it more strictly, who are more fundamentatlist, ect.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The dominant translation of the Bible I would say is the King James Version, or KJV for short. I'm not sure, is that what you're asking?

The King James version is not the dominant version really. There are all different versions. In school we were only told to have a Bible for religion class. We weren't specified as to which version. I never encountered a problem though of one version saying something different than another though.

I did have the King James version which I bought in college (mostly because I was interested in Medieval England), but I had a different version my parents had bought me in 7th grade which was geared toward teenagers. Same translation - not "dumbed down" but it had chapters and forewards which discussed issues which teenagers deal with and stuff.

My mother owned a book store in Indiana and I know that the most popular Bible that sold there was one with a cartoon baby or angel on the cover. I can't remember the name of it though. People bought it as gifts for people - it was very popular.

Here is this people might be interested in...

The Contemporary Parallel New Testament: King James Version, New American Standard Bible, New International Version, New Living Translation, New Century Version, Contemporary English Version,

This exciting new parallel text resource features eight translations of the New Testament which are highly regarded in the evangelical community today. With the exception of the classic King James Version, all of the translations included in this volume have been published - and sometimes even revised - within just the last quarter century by groups which have a strong evangelical outlook.

The texts are arranged to permit easy comparison of the word choices made and translation practices employed by the scholarly teams responsible for rendering the Greek New Testament into modern English. Such a parallel text layout is invaluable to those engaged in individual research or who are Bible study group participants.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Legolaslvr!
I dont know its just ofensive!

I find it offensive that you're trying to suppress a knowledge-driven discussion.

[markedel]

Interesting...

Judaism does see the world as imperfect. Such imperfections are supposed to be fixed by us, and the last touches as it were placed by the messiah-who achieves a primarily (some would say only) political redemption. Spiritual redemption is not necessarily part of the messianic age, men would relate to God in the same way.

Judaism isn't parrticularly big on messianism, at least not traditionally.

The denominational split is really about the authority of the Talmud as source of Jewish law. Orthodoxy sees it as equal to the written Torah, Conservatism sees it as more malleable, Reform Judaism sees it as interesting but not binding, and Reconstructionism, er makes up cool stuff. (I never got my head around reconstructionist Judaism, it's vaguely pantheisitic).

[GrayMouser]

Don't forget the Catholic "Jerusalem Bible" with the translation of the book of Job done by none other than JRR Tolkien.

I love the KJV for its language, but it can be difficult for contemporary audiences, and I understand that modern translations are considered to be more accurate.

I don't know that it's an obligation, but I have never heard a Christian say not to kill in self-defence. The 'turn the other cheek' is dealing with other, less serious issues

Don't groups like the Amish say it all the time?

Judaism's views on abortion are not exactly like Christianity. Judaism definitly allows abortion when the mother's life is in danger-and what that means has been widely interpreted to include psycological trauma. Clearly a fetus is not a human being according to the Torah. Abortions are not encouraged are widely permitted-wasting a potential life, is a waste after all. It just isn't murder.

Many Christian churches would agree with that.

[Coney]

That's only because they don't understand the concept of "The Father, the Son and the holy spirit" It's a confusing concept which most "outsiders" don't understand. In religion class this was discussed a lot.

This is true but there is also a big arguement that some branches of Christianity do not practise monotheism because they worship/pray to the Virgin Mary.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
This is true but there is also a big arguement that some branches of Christianity do not practise monotheism because they worship/pray to the Virgin Mary.

Roman Catholism has a lot of the same reverence for Mary, the mother of God, as does the traditional Italian family has for the mother. It's not that you're praying to the Virgin Mary - it's that you revere her and that god will "listen" to her because she was the mother of Jesus. Just like the family unit is very important in the Italian household - with the mother being a central figure - so it is is the Roman Catholic Church.

No where does it say in Roman Catholicism that Mary should be worshipped - just that she should be revered as the mother of Chirst and that she was a very important person in Jesus's life and is still loved by God.

Here is the background information on the "Hail Mary"

Hail Mary full of grace,
the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and
at the hour of our death.
Amen.

I know this is a central difference among many of the Christian religions and Roman Catholicism. Mary plays a huge part in the Roman Catholic Church - but still many people don't understand that Mary herself isn't being worshipped.

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by markedel
Judaism isn't parrticularly big on messianism, at least not traditionally.

It's not.

originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
The Jews pretty well consider Jesus to be one of the prophets, right?

no! But, I think markedel knows much more then me here. I didn't read Talmud ever - I'm not sure what's in it. But Jesus in defenately not a prophet. Most of the people I know don't really care about him. We did learned abuot him in history - but just one chapter.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I've never tought of her as being worshipped: prayed to, yes, as all saints, but certainly not worshipped.

[gimli7410]

i am catholic but i dont think i believe in religion,i think im atheist