04-03-2003, 05:50 PM | #41 |
The Elven Queen Of All Pyros
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Im like a little bug stuck in the lamp...never going anywhere
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well, custody is easy. Both my parents live in the same town (my dad rents a house) so im with my mom mondays and tuesdays, my dad wensdays and thursdays, then one parent friday-sunday at noon, then the other on sunday, then it switches.
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04-03-2003, 06:54 PM | #42 |
Elf Lord
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Sounds confusing to me.
Custody in my family (at least for me, my older sister is now in her twenties, and my stepsiblings have some weird system) is every other weekend with Dad, Tuesdays on weeks he doesn't have me that weekend, Thursdays otherwise. Those are the days he has off. GW, you can always ask. Parents usually dont' mind TOO much if you'r being respectful about the questions. I must admit, lately I haven't been very respectful to my mother, but she's driving me mad.
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04-11-2007, 11:47 PM | #43 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Divorce.
Anyone know any divorced people?
Opinions as to whether the divorce(s) was a good or bad thing, for the partners, for the family in general? |
04-11-2007, 11:49 PM | #44 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
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For all the people I know, it turned out to be the best thing possible. But then, all the people I know are abusive ****tarts. Least the kids turned out okay, I think that, for the families i've observed, for the kids, it was way better for their parents to separate. Saved them a lot of pain.
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Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
04-12-2007, 02:30 AM | #45 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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This decline in traditional moral values is causing a lot of pain, according to available evidence taken from Britain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6545921.stm Divorce and sexual partnerships outside of wedlock are contributing to "family breakdown and social isolation," for many people. Here are key quotes. Bolds are added. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That is a very heavy statement. These events that BBC puts together also fit together very logically. Partnerships outside of wedlock do not include the vow that the couple will remain together, "till death do us part." As BBC notes, they are more likely to end in splits than marriages, though marriages nowadays too are collapsing. But the results of both are very negative, for a split will often lead to single parenting, which leads to poverty. Poverty will naturally lead to children leaving their parents later, and has commonly been seen as a contributor to crime. BBC remarks that relationship break-downs also can lead to anti-social behavior. This can cause more isolation, to more discord within communities because of people not getting along and not being used to one another. The negative impact of this failure to commit to relationships that will endure has a very negative impact upon mothers, who are stuck often with raising the children, upon the fathers, who according to BBC are now more likely to live by themselves, and upon the children, who suffer through poverty and other problems. It's a grim downward spiral that makes logical sense, and BBC has connected the dots.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-12-2007 at 02:55 AM. |
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04-12-2007, 03:38 AM | #46 | |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
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Oh! Jesus, Lief, what was that long-ass damn post even about? Listen, do you know any divorced people, and what are your _-- YOUR -- opinons --- OPINIONS, not "sources", about whether their divorce was a gfood or bad thing, for the couple YOU KNEW, or for the family whom YOU KNEW in general?? Focus, man Focus!!
Quote:
And yes, I know divorced people, my parents divorced when I was three, so there's them. Almost everybody I know has divorced parents. People who have problems with divorce tend, in the great majority, to be people who have strong emotional faith-based ideas about what marriage ought to be, according to their god. I've got an entire lifetime of experience and observation to account for thids observation, so simmer down, there, Lief, with your "where's your source and documentation please" malarkey. Just cool it, li'l buddy, Okay? my god.
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04-12-2007, 04:01 AM | #47 | |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
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Arien the Maia started a good thread on the subject back in the days - Divorce
Quote:
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
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04-12-2007, 08:31 AM | #48 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Lief, topic is "divorce"
not "Single persons" or "single parent households", and evidence is restricted, in the main, to direct personal observation.
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04-12-2007, 10:10 AM | #49 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Single parent households and single persons are a common result of divorce, so (moderators, correct me if I'm wrong) discussing them is on-topic.
The article I posted discussed the results of both divorce and sexual partnerships outside of wedlock. The alternative to marriage, the topic, is sexual relationships outside of marriage. So both parts of the article are on-topic. Quote:
I've known two different divorced families, and one woman whose parents were divorced. Though she is in her twenties and working, she nearly broke down in tears when talking with me and some other students about that divorce. It was terribly painful and emotionally scarring for her. As to the two other families: 1) In the first case, I know one parent and not his children and spouse. He said that he suffered terribly when his wife divorced him. 2) I know the children better than the parents in this case, but I know that one of the people, a friend whom I greatly respect, feels intense bitterness toward her mother because of the disintegration of her parents' relationship. She feels that the divorce might have been a good thing, because her parents were so nasty to one another and her mother would not repair their relationship. However, her bitterness toward her mother stems from her mother's refusal to repair a situation that was largely the mother's own making. In every case I've seen, the relationship break-down, and in two cases the divorce itself, caused a great deal of pain. The fruit of this practice is very, very bitter indeed. Quote:
So we can't get anywhere in this topic based upon personal experience alone. We need evidence that extends beyond our own experiences, if we are to understand this issue. I provided evidence about the negative impact of divorce and relationship break-up in my first post on this thread.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-12-2007 at 10:12 AM. |
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04-12-2007, 10:28 AM | #50 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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.
Quote:
I know, because I posted this topic, and that's how I designed it. Quote:
Quote:
You're not designing the study, Lief. Get used to it. |
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04-12-2007, 10:34 AM | #51 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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My wife is divorced. She dated her first husband regularly throughout high school then, after her first year in college, they broke up because they were moving apart a bit.
She's a very independent, self-motivated individual who always has ten things going on at once and kind of expects some of the same independence from others. Her boyfriend by comparision, who is a good guy all told, seems to like a bit more of the "mothering kind" when it comes to a mate. A more classic husband-wife relationship from what I can tell. That summer, after they broke up, I met her via a children's theatre we were both part of, and we dated for a few months. I was 25 at the time, and she was 19. It was great for me, as that was in the middle of my heavy jamming days and being with someone a bit more straight-laced was exactly what I needed. That said, when summer was over and she went back to college, she let me know that her and her ex were thinking of getting back together. I wasn't too happy, but I understood and, being far from the settling down stage myself, it made sense. Later that fall she ended up getting pregnant via her ex. Unintentionally she says, because she was on the pill at the time, but was also taking antibiotics for an illness she had, and I guess that they can sometimes counteract the pill. Her ex, who wasn't her ex anymore, decided they had to get married (his family is very Catholic). So they did. Things went well at first, but after the child was a year and a half old, things went downhill fast. He ended up hooking up with a woman from his workplace (who would become his future wife, and was much more in the classic husband-wife mindset I mentioned earlier, though not half as pretty ). They decided to get divorced and, as those things go, it went pretty amicably. He payed child support, but she only asked for the real cost of the support (sixty dollars a week, as opposed to the hundreds of dollars a week many mothers try to get), as she planned to continue teaching. Around this time she paid me a visit for the first time in the three years since we had last seen. The rest is history. We moved in together, had another kid, bought a house together, had another kid, finally got around to getting married, etc. Her ex also got married and had a few kids, but he also continued to take his child a few times each week, and there have never been any issues at all over that. Ten years later and I'd say everything has worked out for the best. Two happy healthy families who get along with one another and are probably happier about themselves than they could ever had been if not for the divorce. So, if nothing else, to me that shows that staying together can be worse than getting divorced, and getting divorced is not always a bad thing and can, in fact, lead to an even better future. Personally, the idea that most kids between the age of 16 and 25 can really state with any kind of sincerity that they can commit "the rest of their life" to another person is crazy. Sure, it works sometimes, but I'd chaulk it more up to luck than perseverance. And any comparisions with "the good old days when everyone stayed together" has to take into account the fact that women had little to no choice in the matter due to the moral restrictions of the time, a moral atmosphere which also saw mistresses for husbands as perfectly acceptable, and almost expected, in many societies. This doesn't mean I don't think people should try to stay together, but divorce is a viable option, and is often the right choice to make. Divorce, like marriage, takes effort to make it work, but if you care about your children and care enough about your former mate, as you should care about any fellow human being, it's an effort that is worth making.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
04-12-2007, 11:43 AM | #52 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
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My mother is the third wife of my father. I know nothing of his earlier marriages, except that he has a son and a daughter from them, and am unlikely to find out now, since he is now deceased.
One of the students here is the son of a divorced family; his mother works in the library at the college, and his father has visited a couple of times. The father left when the son was seven, and the son still resents him for it. Since the divorce, the son has never gone back to see his father. I don't think the divorce was good for this family.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-12-2007, 12:40 PM | #53 | |||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
The article says this: Quote:
Quote:
According to the article itself, divorce is one of the forms of relationship break-down that causes these social problems. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You'll have to modify your initial post to specifically say that people aren't allowed to present evidence here supporting their beliefs, if you want to make my article out-of-line. Quote:
It would help if, for the sake of clarification, you would include in your first post a statement that you want opinions only and no evidence aside from opinion. Though actually, personal experiences with witnessing divorce are forms of evidence too, so really you should be criticizing brownjenkins' post, in which he talks about why he thinks divorce is often fine, and you should be criticizing Gwaimir's post, and you should be criticizing Jonathan and Lotess's posts. All of them explained some of the reasons why they believe what they do. Please clarify in your first post of this thread that you want only certain forms of evidence, and not others, and what kind of a discussion you want.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-12-2007 at 01:01 PM. |
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04-12-2007, 01:30 PM | #54 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Lief,
Quote:
Sentence one: Subject 'anyone' verb 'know' object 'divorced people' Sentence two: Subject and verb implied "Do you have" object "opinions as to whether" the divorce(referring to the divorce of the people you know, in the first sentence) "was a good or bad thing" etc. If I had said, "What is the current status of sociologists on the impact of divorce?" Or "Could someone bring evidence that divorce is anti-Biblical?" or "Just wanted to hear ramblings and rantings on the subject of divorce." I would be hastening back to correct that. Since I was clear, as evinced by the fact that you are the only one in the thread who is having difficulty sticking to personal experience, I won't be correcting it. |
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04-12-2007, 01:33 PM | #55 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
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Why don't we just leave the aesthetics of grammar and posting and bickering for something else?
And if ANYONE continues this this kind of hissy fit, I will personally humiliate them in the Teacup. Just to spite. How's that? Now...let's get on with divorce!
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04-12-2007, 01:43 PM | #56 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I think the idea of sticking to first or secondhand experiences for a change is a good one. Lord knows we get more than enough of statistics and studies thrown around.
Plus, divorce doesn't lend itself well to statistics, ask anyone a few weeks after they did it if they thought it was a good thing and they will probably say no, ask them five years later and they might say it was the best thing they ever did.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
04-12-2007, 01:55 PM | #57 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Sisterandcousinandaunt, your first post is very open and your rejection of evidence that doesn't come from personal experience is not in it at all. What you say in the first post sets the guidelines for the rest of the discussion. Until you change the rules you wrote in those guidelines, I'm not breaking any rules in posting evidence aside from personal experience.
Tessar, do you think that it is clear from this post Quote:
EDIT: I'm leaving this thread . Jonathan made a good point that another one on this topic is already open.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-12-2007 at 01:58 PM. |
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04-12-2007, 01:58 PM | #58 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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This decline in traditional moral values is causing a lot of pain, according to available evidence taken from Britain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6545921.stm Divorce and sexual partnerships outside of wedlock are contributing to "family breakdown and social isolation," for many people. Here are key quotes. Bolds are added. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That is a very heavy statement. These events that BBC puts together also fit together very logically. Partnerships outside of wedlock do not include the vow that the couple will remain together, "till death do us part." As BBC notes, they are more likely to end in splits than marriages, though marriages nowadays too are collapsing. But the results of both are very negative, for a split will often lead to single parenting, which leads to poverty. Poverty will naturally lead to children leaving their parents later, and has commonly been seen as a contributor to crime. BBC remarks that relationship break-downs also can lead to anti-social behavior. This can cause more isolation, to more discord within communities because of people not getting along and not being used to one another. The negative impact of this failure to commit to relationships that will endure has a very negative impact upon mothers, who are stuck often with raising the children, upon the fathers, who according to BBC are now more likely to live by themselves, and upon the children, who suffer through poverty and other problems. It's a grim downward spiral that makes logical sense, and BBC has connected the dots.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-12-2007, 02:15 PM | #59 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
It's a tough issue, but most people get some exposure to it. |
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04-12-2007, 02:34 PM | #60 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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I'm in favour of that tactic, sis. I get very tired of the re-runs of Statistics Wars that run around these days.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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