03-18-2003, 12:48 AM | #41 |
The Buddy Rabbit
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Last edited by Coney : 03-18-2003 at 12:54 AM. |
03-18-2003, 02:04 AM | #42 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Broad coalition?
US, Britain, Australia and a jar of Spanish olives. (no troops) Quote:
And even if some of the governments do, as far as the people of the world goes, there is only one country where the population supports the attack on Iraq without a Security Council vote. ( And it's not America. CNN poll 50% against 47% for) I'm in favour of a war to get rid of Saddam, but the arrogance, clumsiness and outright contempt for everyone else in the world shown by this Administration leaves me with a fairly bleak view of the near future. Given the mess left behind in Afghanistan, the compulsion to silence any questioning voices (including the head of the US Army) and their eagerness to start handing out the spoils to their campaign contributors, I can't be optimistic about the way they'll handle the aftermath.
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03-18-2003, 02:22 AM | #43 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
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Again - we did NOT have to go to the UN at all. It was not a requirement. Quote:
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03-18-2003, 02:27 AM | #44 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
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03-18-2003, 02:30 AM | #45 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Quote:
I suggest you read up on the UN as well, JD was correct in stating that the majority of the UN was with us, there was just no vote to prove it... By the way, nice propaganda with your poll stats. I love how you eloquently left out that that is from a poll asking "The U.S. decides NOT to offer the resolution to the United Nations and says it will proceed with military action without any new vote in the U.N." Nice job at providing the whole story, I think that right there lessens your post. However on the converse side you have these two polls to match it: These are from http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030317.asp Now, here are some things that could happen with this resolution. For each, say if you would favor or opposing invading Iraq with U.S. ground troops if it happened. How about if – [RANDOM ORDER]? A. The U.S. offers the resolution to the United Nations and the U.N. approves it? 2003 Mar 14-15 Favor 78% Oppose 19% No Opinion 3$ B. The U.S. offers the resolution to the United Nations and the U.N. rejects it 2003 Mar 14-15 Favor 54% Oppose 43% No Opinion 3% C. The U.S. decides NOT to offer the resolution to the United Nations and says it will proceed with military action without any new vote in the U.N. 2003 Mar 14-15 Favor 47% Oppose 50% No Opinion 3% Those were taken before Bush's speech tonight, so naturally that data will change. As of tonight, here are new figures in polls run: -Overall, 66% of Americans approve of Bush's decision to go to war unless Saddam Hussein leaves Iraq within 48 hours, while 30% disapprove. -By a similar margin, 68% to 28%, Americans also say that the United States has done all it can do to solve the crisis with Iraq diplomatically. -The poll suggests that 44% of Americans have been convinced by the president's arguments, and thus support his decision. Another 21% of Americans are unsure if war is the right thing, but support Bush anyway because he is the president. Thirty percent take an opposing point of view. -The poll also shows that most people, 70%, are "worried" about the possibility of going to war in the next few days. A bare majority feels "confident," while just under a majority feels "afraid." Only 31% feel "relieved." Here is the link to the newest polls that I just posted above: http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030318.asp
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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03-18-2003, 02:37 AM | #46 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
To me - France was the one being completely unreasonable. All they wanted to do was drag on the diplomatic wraggling until they got their way. Maybe they thought we'd actually blink - I'm not sure. Maybe Chirac likes the limelight. All I know is that there would have been NO end in sight to make Hussein come clean. Bush didn't need the resolution because 65% of AMERICANS already support him.
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03-18-2003, 02:56 AM | #47 |
Elf Lord
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I just wish that that full and unedited/abridged speech could get through to the Iraqi people and soldiers. I doubt that it will though, and that disappoints me.
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03-18-2003, 02:58 AM | #48 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-18-2003, 03:03 AM | #49 |
Elf Lord
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Perhaps the news on Channel 7 tonight was just professing doom, but they said there that it's likely that Saddam will put a whole new interpretation on it and parts of it will be edited out when it's played.
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03-18-2003, 03:06 AM | #50 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Historically he has always been after power, in his country and in others, so it would be rather out of character to give up the power he has. |
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03-18-2003, 03:12 AM | #51 | |
Elf Lord
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03-18-2003, 03:26 AM | #52 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-18-2003, 06:21 AM | #53 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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It is really sad that the UN didn't manage to reach an agreement. The resolution should have been voted for. I don't see why the USA were pulling out. If France had really vetoed it, they would have been left with the blame, but now the USA also must bear the responsibility.
The UN has failed.
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03-18-2003, 07:04 AM | #54 |
Corruptor
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I'm so sad about this war Such a waste..............so many innocent people who will be killed Hopefully it will be over very fast & the losses will be minimal.
Strikes me as strange that a few of the "good Christians" here (and across the world) would support such a thing............yet another reason for me to rather not call myself one
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. Last edited by Baby-K : 03-18-2003 at 07:12 AM. |
03-18-2003, 08:02 AM | #55 |
Elf Lord
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I don't think Hussein will leave because I think he honestly believes he will win. He believes he won the Iran-Iraq war and he believes he sort of won in 1991. He seems to be surrounded by yes men who reinforce his beliefs of invincibility and popular support (if they value their lives they do at least!).
Thankfully Iraqi military strategy seems stuck at about WW1, relying on earth works with tanks often dug into defensive positions and used as mobile bunkers. Perhaps this isn't such a bad idea as moving armour in the face of Allied control of the air would be near-suicidal. The Iraqis will probably try and halt an invasion with largely static defences ill-equipped to deal with special forces and highly mobile armoured divisions. Hopefully the Iraqi army will collapse soon after the first attacks and there won't be many casualties. My real worry is that they'll see themselves as fighting for their homeland and not the nutter in charge of it. The nightmare scenario would be desperately partisan Iraqi forces falling back into the hills and towns, avoiding set-piece battles and fighting house by house, valley by valley. That would cause a lot of casualties. I really hope it doesn't come to that.
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03-18-2003, 09:34 AM | #56 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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I think the Purim timing is ironic by the way because Purim is about God's constant subtle manipulation of history. I certainly don't think this war is "divinely inspired" (well I suppose in some sense it is, provided you believe in God), but I'm sure there are Rabbis here and there who would say this is a just reward for someone who is a modern Haman in every sense.
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03-18-2003, 09:45 AM | #57 |
im quite stupid
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So it has come to war ! Cannot say im happy or i agree with it. But to all nations service men and women (evens Iraqs) i hope that it ends with as little killing as possiable. A special mention to my good friends Burty, John, Kevin, little jepson and jennys Bf who have all been called up to fight in the war i be thinking of you all!
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
03-18-2003, 11:25 AM | #58 | ||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-18-2003, 11:30 AM | #59 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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03-18-2003, 12:19 PM | #60 | |
Elf Lord
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dúnedain
[B]You are certainly Ill-informed my friend. Mess in Afghanistan? huh? How can you say that? The country has publicly stated it is better now than it was 6 months ago, the people are free and they are rebuilding with our help, how is that a mess? [quote] If by "the countryhas publicly stated", you are referring to the visit of President Karzai to Washington at the beginning of this month, it must be pointed out that he was in something of a delicate position. The Bush Administration had made it perfectly clear it didn't want to hear any bad news that might cast a shadow on its plans for war in Iraq, and Karzai himself had to walk a fine line between boosting signs of progress while pointing out how much still needed to be done, in hopes that the aid that was promised was actually delivered- in the draft budget sent to Congress by Bush there was exactly $0 in aid for rebuilding Afghanistan- not one thin dime; the Administration spokesman's excuse was that they weren't sure it was really needed. Karzai is essentially Mayor of Kabul, the provinces are in the hands of the warlords, many of them Islamic fundamentalists who are busy turning back to the days of the Taliban: enforcing the burqa, closing schools for girls, executing and torturing at will etc.. Quote:
On the bright side, the opium economy is booming; Afghanistan is now back to being the number one heroin producer in the world; unfortunately the money from that goes straight into the pockets of the local warlords. The one thing that Karzai and those trying to re-establish civil government have been pleading for from day one has been the expansion of the International Security Force and that has been the one thing the U.S. has firmly opposed; the Pentagon prefers to work with the warlords without worrying about international observers or interference. I call that a mess.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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