12-12-2007, 03:07 PM | #41 | |
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It's how humans work. Would you even pay any of your taxes if the choice was left up to you? I know I wouldn't. I'm just restating the fact that we are doomed to all kinds of undesirable changes in the future, due to population growth, that dwarf carbon emissions.
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12-13-2007, 02:15 PM | #42 | |
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I didnt realize voting for a democrat was the equivalent of supporting a communist dictator in a totalitarian state. I suppose that means anyone who votes for a republican must have swastika arm bands in the closet?
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12-13-2007, 05:32 PM | #43 |
Elf Lord
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I tell ya, the latter is nearer the truth than the former in these enlightened days.
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02-24-2008, 11:08 PM | #44 |
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RECORD temperature DECLINE last year........
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../24/do2402.xml Will they take away/take back Al's Nobel prize for inaccuracy, false reporting, and producing too much carbon whilst traipsing about with his muddled ideas? You be the judge!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-25-2008, 06:59 AM | #45 |
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Just because you want climate change to be as simplistic as: more CO2 = hotter everywhere, doens't mean it'll [be] just that. Local cold-records are not impossible in the curent global warming mechanism, Inked. Try again next time.
A lot of factors come to play into climate change, and it is not just CO2 or just the sun-spot cycle that triggers things. This article is IMO just geared at sensation, not proper science reporting, but then again, it's an opinion piece, not even a proper news article. (In fact, IMO, there couldn't be a better example that the climate's off tilt than the abnormal and extreme snow-fall in China.)
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02-25-2008, 09:26 AM | #46 |
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That story should be subtitled "Know-nothing journo deploys herd mentality to nourish Jeremy Clarkson reactionary brigade."
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02-25-2008, 12:13 PM | #47 |
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Hey, this seems "proof" of the theory of global cooling espoused as the "hottest" (pseudo)science of the 1960's, rather than "proof". I just thought that snow on the beach in Greece and loss of crops in China due to dnow might have something to do that Al forgot. Oh well,... . On the ohter hand, temperature decline and snow in Greece and China seems to be a Global effect and not merely limited to a freak snow in Greece. Unless the whole planet is freak-y.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-25-2008, 01:19 PM | #48 |
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While there's snow in Greece I can say that technically a big part of Scandinavia didn't have any winter this year. According to Swedish and Finnish meteorological definition, winter is the time of the year when the mean temperature remain steady at 0 ºC or below.
Well, that didn't happen this year. And since the spring criteria haven't all been met yet, it's still autumn over here Funny. A few years ago when there was snow chaos in Medditerranean Europe, we had a quite warm winter up north in Scandinavia too. Bizarre.
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02-25-2008, 03:01 PM | #49 |
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So we get some snow in January and inked is ready to use that as proof that global warming is a myth? Of course the January to January temp drop was significant. Know why? Not because its been an extra frigid January THIS year but because LAST January was the hottest on record… a full 0.23 degrees Celsius warmer than the previous record. So its hard to do worse than the worst number tricks and misrepresentations aside…
Why in the world would you champion what essentially amounts to a single month’s temperature and ignore the fact that 8 of the past 10 years have been THE HOTTEST ON RECORD? How can you explain that away with snow in Greece exactly? And what was all that about more ice cover then ever? Is he looking at Earth or Mars? Or is he ignoring certain parts of the world entirely… The fact is summer sea-ice in the Arctic Ocean shrank dramatically last year (a whopping 23%!). For the first time in recorded human history the Northwest Passage opened up to ships which you may recall caused a scramble for territory claims in the “new global warming” era of artic land speculation… Anything for political gamesmenship I guess… Or corporate elegance…
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 02-25-2008 at 06:04 PM. |
02-25-2008, 07:36 PM | #50 |
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Oh, IR, you know you can't trust government data because it is all slewed by a vast conspiracy to misreport the facts!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-25-2008, 10:40 PM | #52 | |
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02-26-2008, 03:28 AM | #53 | ||||||
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A little clarification so we're all on the same page: Sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect in text, I'm reading, "Is it just those other folks that need to reduce their population so we can maintain the inequality that is America consuming 50% of world resources for 5% of the population?" as commentary on how wealthy nations consume way too many resources. But... Stalin? A liberal? And HOW? Quote:
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02-26-2008, 07:19 PM | #54 |
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Nurv,
The Ghandi pun was awesome!!! Thanks! You bolded all the right words!!! The global cooling myth and the global warming myth are both myths in the sense of fantasy constructs designed to convey some aspect of actuality but in extremis. Some days on the 'Moot are just so good because someone GETS it! Stalin was very liberal with death by starvation as a way of solving the resources and too many people thingy. Best estimate, forced relocation and statist cooperatives resulted in the deaths of about 10 million folks (range, IMSC, 5-20 million). The LIBERAL application of socialist principles solved the food shortage.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-26-2008 at 07:22 PM. Reason: addendum |
02-26-2008, 09:56 PM | #55 | ||
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I do like to say climate change instead of global warming because the term encompasses more than a long-term warming trend. Still, global warming is not a myth. The graph IRex posted earlier demonstrates the long-term warming trend in global temperatures.
No pal, as much as I wish it were true, global warming is no more a myth than Stalin was a socialist. (Communist dictatorship != socialist policies.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 02-26-2008 at 10:02 PM. |
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02-26-2008, 11:47 PM | #56 |
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Nurv, you know better than most that climate change is the name of the game (remember that bit about grasslands to forests et vice versa). Global warming is not the same as climate change. Global warming is one form of climate change. The allegation that global warming is man-made is just that. Some chappie measuring the changes after the Maunder Minimum would have a case for global warming, and, you know, he's be right. The chappie with the data before the Maunder Minimum would have a good claim to global cooling.
It's not the changes that are the point of the hysteria a la Al G. It's the hype. So, do you prefer Pr-, intra-, or emerging Maunder Minima for the current reality as opposed to the hype?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-27-2008, 05:37 AM | #57 | |
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Also, the fellow with the data before the Maunder Minimum can only make predictions about what happens then. He'd need a lot more recent data to make predictions about what might happen now.
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02-27-2008, 01:14 PM | #58 |
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And climate change with global warming and cooling is recorded in the ice cores.
Climate change goes either way. Global warming has happened before and will happen again. The question is whether this is normative change within the climate related to a multitude of factors or whether the hype is accurate and causative OUTSIDE the normal variations. That is contestible. And is worthy of contest. Especially if politicos want to use the fear factor to elevate their powers. This remains the true "Inconvenient Truth" - with or without a Nobel Prize. Science, not hype.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
03-28-2008, 07:15 PM | #59 |
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So Al Gore, Al Sharpton, and Pat Robertson are walking on a beach...and team up to fight Global Warming!
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03-29-2008, 07:15 AM | #60 | |
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Inked, that you are highly sceptical of any human involvement in climate change is more than obvious. But to make things clearer; are you doubtful as to whether the past 50 years have indeed been a period of global warming?
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I skimmed through the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC and this is what I've found:
Science, not hype
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