The Lord of the Rings discussion: Chapter 1, A Long-expected Party

[Fat middle]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I wonder if Sam and the Gaffer were invited to the party, since in the appendices their names are not underlined. I suspect they were there in some capacity, but perhaps not 'officially'.

I had never thought of that. I had assumed that Sam was there, but now I'm not sure.

[Rían]

by Cass
My copy of the LOTR is falling apart because I thumb through it so often.

Yes, so are mine - they're held together by some packing tape. My Hobbit literally had pages falling out of it. I finally bought a hardcopy Hobbit, the one illustrated by Alan Lee with a gorgeous painting of Smaug on the front. I'd like to get a hardcopy LOTR next, in ONE book, to honor Tolkien's original intent

[brownjenkins]

i have this version

lotr

a bit expensive, but worth it in the long run

the only problem is it doesn't travel as easy as the paperbacks

[Valandil]

OK - finally getting the reading in... just first five pages so far.

"So Frodo is Bilbo's first and second cousin, once removed each way, so to speak." HILARIOUS! I was trying to remember if Frodo also had some Took in him (as well as Brandybuck), but hadn't checked a family tree yet - and sure enough, the Gaffer spells it right out for me! They were second cousins once removed on both of their father's sides - and first cousins once removed on both their mother's sides!

[Rían]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
i have this version

lotr

a bit expensive, but worth it in the long run

the only problem is it doesn't travel as easy as the paperbacks

Quite nice, Brownie! Are there any illustrations?

Yes, the paperbacks are nice to cram into a suitcase or stuff into a bag - I'll keep them for travel. Too bad I just had my bday

[brownjenkins]

no illustrations other than the obvious... but nice paper and type... easy on the eyes

[Lady Ravyn]

i have two sets: one that my mom bought in the seventies that's been read so much it's cover has been taped on multiple times and we recently broke down and bought a second copy; that one is hardcover, and has all three books in one volume. but it's really heavy, so it's hard to read.
so, with all those, i still ended up borrowing a nice sturdy, light-weight paperback version from the library

i luv the part with the present tags after bilbo leaves; i wish tolkien had included them all somewhere!

[GrayMouser]

It does say "Practically everybody living near was invited. A very few were overlooked by accident, but as they turned up all the same, that did not matter. "

I would say that, as both the Gaffer and Sam were employed by Bilbo, they would be there in the capacity as 'help' rather than as guests, and so weren't underlined in the Appendix.

Though I'm sure they ate and drank their fair share, and got a present

[Artanis]

In the appendix none of the Hobbits in Sam Gamgee's family tree, which includes the Cottons, are underlined. Were none of them invited? It may be that only the upper and middle class had recieved a formal invitation, and so were counted as proper guests. After all Bilbo wrote the invitations, and I guess lower-class Hobbits weren't able to read.

Just a thought.

[The Gaffer]

Well, it does say that "gardeners" came by prior arrangement, so maybe they were in the car park smoking tabs all night then came out at the end to wheel off the comatose hoi polloi.

It doesn't sound to me as if they were invited.

My copy of FOTR has been shedding pages from the back for a number of years. Have lost the map and am now down to the last page of the text. Nearly time to buy a new one methinks.

[Artanis]

I've got LotR, the Hobbit and the Sil as audio books also. No loose pages.

[The Gaffer]

Ah, but will they last 25 years? Tapes have a nasty habit of getting chewed up, and CDs, well, let's see if the format is still around.

A friend used to have The Hobbit on vinyl LP. It was a quadruple album, I think.

[Valandil]

A question of a different kind: is the surname 'Hornblower' at all common in the UK? I don't know of it at all hereabouts. What makes me curious is the series of CS Forester books about a fictitious British sea captain, 'Horatio Hornblower' - set in the Napoleonic era (similar to more recent 'Master and Commander' type stuff). I believe Forester began to write his books in the 1930's. Does anyone think Tolkien took the name from there, or is it a common enough name, or just 'funny-sounding' enough - or coincidental, or whatever?

BTW - I read all those Hornblower books and liked them quite a bit. Discovered them when in junior high - saw a reference to how the earliest concepts of the character for the captain of Star Trek's USS Enterprise was sort of based on him. I was a Star Trek fan, so I gravitated right to the 'For' section under 'Fiction' at the public library.

[azalea]

kicked offline....post lost...trying again...

Originally posted by brownjenkins


it also provided somewhat mundane yet interesting social interaction while allowing them to avoid the more "risky" subjects like current events

Great point!! (I had more to say about this in my original post, but twas lost, and I'm low on time)

Gaffer -- that four record set was how I first "read" The Hobbit. We checked it out from the library when I was a girl.

Valandil -- Horatio Hornblower was also made into a relatively recent trio of made for cable specials (A&E), starring the *yummy* Ioan Gryffudh (not sure on that spelling). They were great, but the one about the French Revolution was too violent for my tastes (too many beheadings). I think another one was going to be made at some point.

I have more to say on topic, but I have to go now!

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by azalea

Gaffer -- that four record set was how I first "read" The Hobbit. We checked it out from the library when I was a girl.

IIRC, it had some pretty cool background music, especially in Mirkwood, and no it wasn't by Rick Wakeman.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by azalea

Valandil -- Horatio Hornblower was also made into a relatively recent trio of made for cable specials (A&E), starring the *yummy* Ioan Gryffudh (not sure on that spelling). They were great, but the one about the French Revolution was too violent for my tastes (too many beheadings). I think another one was going to be made at some point.

Yes, I knew about those but didn't have our dish when they first came out. Saw portions of a couple as re-runs. Mostly stuck to the stories in the books - though of course they had to change a little and cut a lot - going from book to film, ya know!

Have you read the books too?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
Ah, but will they last 25 years? Tapes have a nasty habit of getting chewed up, and CDs, well, let's see if the format is still around.

A friend used to have The Hobbit on vinyl LP. It was a quadruple album, I think.

I've got mp3 backups.

The Hobbit on good old-fashioned LP? I didn't know that existed. Cool.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Valandil
Yes, I knew about those but didn't have our dish when they first came out. Saw portions of a couple as re-runs. Mostly stuck to the stories in the books - though of course they had to change a little and cut a lot - going from book to film, ya know!

Have you read the books too?

Unfortunately not, but they are on my "to read" list (along with a hundred others ). You should start a thread in GenLit about it. Maybe I'll be motivated to finally read one.


Stuff I didn't get to post earlier:

I like that dwarves and "other odd folk" were at the party, and that dwarves had come to help in getting things ready for it. I wonder who the dwarves were, and also what is meant by "other odd folk" -- hobbits from Bree perhaps? I wonder what Tolkien had in mind there.
I like that some of the toys given out were "magical," and were made by the dwarves. I'd love to have had a couple of them described. I wonder what they did that was magical?
Did I mention I love the description of the fireworks?

I love Tolkien's slow buildup of the Ring -- it's fabulous (Bilbo and Gandalf's conversation)! It goes from helpful magical ring to a negative force to be reckoned with in just a few pages.

Mathoms -- I love this term and the idea of this. I have many! It made me wonder if hobbits generated any trash, and if so, where did they put it? The Shire landfill? I think since they're environmentally friendly beings they would have kept most everything, and thus generated very little trash.

BTW, I have to comment that I think the idea that Gandalf staged Bilbo putting on the Ring is absurd. The whole reason he caused the flash was to mask the fact that it was there. He wanted the hobbits to think it was more fireworks, and that was how Bilbo disappeared, and did not want anyone to know Bilbo had it.

[Olmer]

Originally posted by azalea


BTW, I have to comment that I think the idea that Gandalf staged Bilbo putting on the Ring is absurd. The whole reason he caused the flash was to mask the fact that it was there. He wanted the hobbits to think it was more fireworks, and that was how Bilbo disappeared, and did not want anyone to know Bilbo had it.

Right. Gandalf didn't stage it, he TALKED Bilbo into staging it, because he MADE Bilbo agree on giving away the Ring and was making sure that he didn't forget about it when leaving all his belongins to Frodo:"Everithing?" said Gandalf. "The ring as well? You AGREED to that, you remember." And the whole "party business was all about, really: to give away lots of birthday presents, and somehow TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GIVE IT(the ring) AWAY at the same time ", in which Gandalf participated more than actively. If he would wanted to mask " the fact" why he wouldn't "mask" his disappearance with a subtle blue fog(for example) without focusing everybody's wandering attention on "blinding" flash?

If you want quietly to get out of the house, would you slam the door with big bang?

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Olmer
Right. Gandalf didn't stage it, he TALKED Bilbo into staging it, because he MADE Bilbo agree on giving away the Ring and was making sure that he didn't forget about it when leaving all his belongins to Frodo:"Everithing?" said Gandalf. "The ring as well? You AGREED to that, you remember." And the whole "party business was all about, really: to give away lots of birthday presents, and somehow TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GIVE IT(the ring) AWAY at the same time ", in which Gandalf participated more than actively. If he would wanted to mask " the fact" why he wouldn't "mask" his disappearance with a subtle blue fog(for example) without focusing everybody's wandering attention on "blinding" flash?

If you want quietly to get out of the house, would you slam the door with big bang?

I don't see how Bilbo disappearing in a suddenly arising blue fog is anymore subtle than a bang or a simple disappearance.

And Gandalf is a fire Maia- he doesn't do fogs- or subtle, for that matter