03-21-2002, 10:31 PM | #41 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Well in terms of the Jewish God I suppose you would say he's more balanced-The Jewish God would never forgive you for just believing in him, no more then a Jew can be forgiven for just believing in God. From what I understand there is more emphasis in mercy in Christinaity, and more faith. Judaism isn't big into faith. Deeds not words as it were.
As for the miracles problem. It's not that much of a problem. God is hidden from us, so we don't recognize miracles as such. For the Jewish view of such a problem you can read up on Purim, the holiday who's point is to look at such things.
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03-21-2002, 10:51 PM | #42 |
The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain
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I understand that the differences between Judaism and Christianity are much more broad; I was merely stating the obvious in answer to markedel's question about the term "Judeo-Christian". I was also wondering if there was another, more specific reason why the two are so closely associated.
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03-21-2002, 10:53 PM | #43 |
The Insufferable
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Miracles:
Jesus himself often got on the case of people who wanted miracles They were the sensation seekers, the kinds of people that jump from one thing or another. They were only interested in seeing a show. Consider the jews in exodus. They saw one miracle after another, and yet still made themselves into troublemakers. Likewise many people throughout the Bible. Jesus: Jesus was not just a realy cool person. He claimed, flat out, in front of the religious authorities of the day, that He Was God. How do you take someone like that? Faith: Markedhel. Do you recall that 'abraham had faith and it was credited to him as righteousness'? faith and mercy are there int he old testament... they're just not as blatent.
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03-22-2002, 12:05 AM | #44 |
Elven Warrior
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i was raised catholic, but i havent been to church in forever. for the last year i have really been struggling with the concept of a loving god. i do beleive in god, but his portrayal in the bible leaves me puzzled. my wife died aug 31, 2001 of cancer, leaving me with 2 small children to raise. during this time i turned to prayer and god to save my wife. my prayers werent answered unfortunately. so the phrase ask and ye shall receive doesnt hold any value to me. secondly, the phrase" things happen for a reason, it was gods will." has no merit in my experiences. whats the reaon that small children are kidnapped, raped and killed. how could a loving god permit this?
one of the ten commandments is inherantly hypocritical. the one dealing with adultery. correct me if i'm wrong, but did'nt one of god's most trusted servants, abraham, do just that with a slave girl? he was married to sarah, and while married he fathered a child(ishmael) out of wedlock. i do believe in god(even though my faith has been tested). i'm just not sure if i believe in the bible. sorry, i should have posted this to the other thread.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. Last edited by MasterMothra : 03-22-2002 at 12:08 AM. |
03-22-2002, 02:10 AM | #45 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
BUT i will say that non-theist have replies to your statements.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-22-2002, 10:51 AM | #46 | ||
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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Quote:
I have thought how good it would be to die just to figure out God, but then I think about Jesus saying "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'" (John 20:29) and I realize that God wants me to have faith in him and that I don't need to see him to believe in him. Quote:
I don't believe that this makes the Bible hypocritical. This is one of the most sad parts of life - People Sin. God gave humans free will and now they sin. I do it, all Christians do it. I am sorry we do and I wish I didn't... |
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03-22-2002, 01:42 PM | #47 |
Elven Warrior
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I have also struggled a little with why God lets bad things happen. What I have come up with is that as humans, we have a very limited view and can't see everything that comes from a situation. We see the sad part or the evil part of what happened. There are times when we can't see what good comes from it. The creaation myth in the Silmarilion is really good. I wish I had a copy of it to look off of for writting this. It is kind of like the part with the discordant music. Only Eru could see past it to see the beauty that still exsisted and how all would still work out for good. The real world is like that too. Only God can see, we just have to trust that he knows what he is doing.
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03-22-2002, 02:08 PM | #48 | |
The Insufferable
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Quote:
I'm always happy to accept correction. If that correction is correct.
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03-22-2002, 02:29 PM | #49 |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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afro- PM me too, I want to hear...
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03-22-2002, 04:47 PM | #50 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Judaism was polygamist until around 1000. As for faith beign paramount, it all depends on how you interpert the Bible. Jews interpert the Bible in very different ways from Christians. How I was taught about Abraham is very different from how you're taught about it. It is very difficult to compare "The Old Testament" and "The Tanakh." Beacuse each is taken in different contexts. ANd that isn't taking inot account interperting Hebrew.
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03-22-2002, 05:27 PM | #51 |
The Insufferable
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I suppose that's true enough.
People have become christians by studying hte tanakh, though.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
03-22-2002, 06:50 PM | #52 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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03-22-2002, 07:08 PM | #53 |
Elven Warrior
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If we're looking at it from a Christian point of view, I don't believe the question "why do bad things happen to good people?" is valid. From a Christian POV, we are all "bad" as in we are all sinners. Therefore, a more correct question would be "Why do good things happen to bad people?" to which the answer would be "by the grace of a loving God."
Also, in reference to MasterMothra's statement, there is here a two-part answer. 1st: Sarah was barren. In order to produce an heir, she ordered her handmaiden Hagar to "lie with" her husband. That child would then be Abraham's heir. Sarah didn't know then the God would provide her with a child of her own. It was the same thing Dartagnion did with the Queen of France, to provide Louis XIV with an heir. It's kind of like a surrogate mother thing. 2nd: The actions of a single person do not void the orders of God. Just because one of God's servants broke some of God's rules, that doesn't invalidate the rules themselves. And just to mix things up a bit more, When Abraham did that, the 10 Commandments weren't around yet.
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03-22-2002, 07:10 PM | #54 |
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to wayfarer and emplynx
no problem but give me a few days ok?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-22-2002, 09:11 PM | #55 |
Elf Lord
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About miracles:
I've heard the same question before at the class my parents and I go too, and it has gotten deeper than that. What has happened to our being unable to make a more full connection to the spiritual world? One possible answer is how do you know there aren't miracles happening? Those prophets gave everything they had up to follow Christ, and devoted their lives to him. With that sort of focus and self-sacrifice, it is natural that they were more capable of coming into a much more close relationship with the Lord. I agree with what was said about sensation-seekers, for those who simply go around looking for miracles. In my faith, whenever I have acted in this way so far I have always run into a brick wall. But when there is a reason behind prayers or requests to the Lord, he certainly is willing to accomplish miracles in your life. He certainly has for me anyway, and if you read other books written by Christians lately, you'll find (If you believe them) that the Lord certainly hasn't ceased in this area. He doesn't always answer prayers however in the way we desire. About sin: My beliefs here are somewhat less firmly grounded, as I don't have personal experiences to bolster my own opinions. It wasn't God who allowed sin into the world, it came as the serpent, or the devil, and we know that he started it and caused mankind's fall. Ever since then, all man has had the knowledge of good and evil, and are capable of making their own decisions. God allows us to make our own decisions, and sin does exist. All man is naturally corrupted by that evil now, and it is our nature. However, once one comes to know Jesus Christ, his grace can help to purge that weakness. As one comes more fully into his light and becomes more like him, his nature becomes ours, and our old nature shrinks and becomes less. It is difficult to understand sometimes why God doesn't simply banish all sin from the world in one deed, but we cannot see all ends of his eternal plan. To claim to be able to do so would be to claim to be God's equal. |
03-22-2002, 09:31 PM | #56 |
Head Hollara
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MasterMothra - about the Abraham/adultery thing:
The times were different. VERY different. I mean, just read what Abraham said to his servant in Genesis, chapter 24, verse two. No one does that any more (I think). They also purchased their wives ('cept poor Jacob) and many other things. What Rachel did, in fact, was give him her servant to bear child in her place, which was accepted at the time. Presently, this is obviously not the case. I hope that explanation suffices. Tribulation afflicting good people... good question. I'll tackle it. Jesus: "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33) Apparently, afflictions happen to everyone. Some may have things easier than others, but trials surely will come. "...let my life be much set in the eyes of the Lord, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation" (1 Samuel 26:24) Personally, what I infer from that is we must conform to previously designated principles to recieve the promised blessings. We see this occur throughout the Bible. God's servants are spared and blessed numerous times. When they are not, I trust that God knows best. I hope that helps some one.
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03-22-2002, 11:20 PM | #57 |
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i lkike the reasoning. i'm just not sure i really believe the bible. the bible to me does not answer any questions, i seem more confused after reaing it.
such as, "will i go to hell if i don't think jesus is the only way to god, or that jc is the son of god? what was the fate of the indians b/f christianity was introduced? did they go to heaven or hell? maybe i just don't believe in christianity. too much hypocracy in christianity for it to be representative of gods will. what part of the bible do i believe? "thou shalt not kill", or "an eye for an eye"? what do all of you think?
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
03-23-2002, 07:58 AM | #58 | |
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Quote:
*Ya, I know, how incredibly sexist, but then, I AM paraphrasing.
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03-23-2002, 09:36 AM | #59 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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In Judaism people aren't naturally sinners. Which doesn't help that much because there's so many more things to violate in Judaism. It is beneficila to non-Jews, as God judges them on a less exacting scale, unlike according to Christianity where I'm doomed for being born. Instead I'm doomed for what I do, or don't do as it may be.
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03-23-2002, 10:30 AM | #60 | ||||||||||||||||
The Original Corruptor
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Darth Tater:
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I would like to respond to the posters here, so that I can in turn get a response from them. If I go and post in a segregated thread which is generally of similar opinion to mine, I will most probably not be challenged, and my thoughts will never be fine-tuned as a result. If this post results in a temporary ban, so be it, but I plead to you, stay your hand Emplynx: Quote:
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d. if I do not believe in nor strive to do God's will and he does not exist, I am merely correct, and I will be doomed to the "hell" of the one true religion, if it exists. It seems you have factored out all the other religions somehow. Clearly this wager is more complex than you have stated. Also, it seems that fear is the motive behind this belief - you are afraid of eternal damnation, so you'd rather play it safe and believe. Quote:
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