10-11-2008, 10:29 AM | #41 | |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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Quote:
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10-11-2008, 12:33 PM | #42 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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The narrator of LOTR is...... tada! Tolkien.
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10-11-2008, 01:39 PM | #43 |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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No, he's the translator into English.
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10-11-2008, 06:24 PM | #44 |
Deus Ex Machina
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Except for the pov shifts where he breaks that illusion, presumably on purpose.
We're hardly the first fans to discuss this and one story internal theory I've come across is that the name Moria was in such persistent usage among the elves of Eregion (especially those of the Sindar) that the name stuck despite dwarvish preferences and was the only one that would make the enchantment on the gates work. Purely speculative, of course, but much more amusing.
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi |
10-11-2008, 09:01 PM | #45 |
Elven Warrior
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I strongly agree with the POV that the Hobbits are writing the history in LOTR with Tolkien doing the translating. It's why, in the movie section, I'm usually more open to the personality changes than most. The Hobbits worshipped, for example, Aragorn and Faramir. They had every incentive, in the Red Book, to present them as "larger than life." Well, so be it.
It is an interesting angle from which to consider the Moria name issue, though.
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10-11-2008, 09:48 PM | #46 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Can you provide evidence for this?
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10-11-2008, 11:14 PM | #47 | |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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Only textual evidence, if you are prepared to take Tolkien's own word for it
Quote:
He then goes on to tell in the first person some considerations he has made in his translations. As I said, we've only got his word for it
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10-12-2008, 05:33 AM | #48 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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His word is holy so that's good enough for me.
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10-12-2008, 11:16 PM | #49 |
Elven Warrior
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Also The Lord of the Rings title page reads (written in runes): 'The Lord of the Rings translated from the Red Book'.
And the Tengwar on the bottom reads: 'of Westmarch by Jhon Ronald Reuel Tolkien. Herein is set forth the history of the War of the Ring and the Return of the King as seen by the hobbits.' |
10-12-2008, 11:21 PM | #50 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Yeah, but f.ex. when the Uruk Hai and the Orcs speak when they've captured Merry and Pippin the two hobbits don't understand the language do they (Or did these foul creatures speak (unlikely) in Westron? ), and that would suggest that definitely the narrator possesses more info than the hobbits do.. I'm sure there are numerous examples of this in the books.
*Sees that Galin is the only other Mooter online and waits eagerly for her (Guesses her..)/his solitary answer in the midst of Entmoot-loneliness*
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." Last edited by Coffeehouse : 10-12-2008 at 11:31 PM. |
10-12-2008, 11:34 PM | #51 |
Elven Warrior
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Well, as seen by the Hobbits is true enough in any case, generally speaking.
Regarding the detail you raised on the language anyway, to Pippin's surpise he found that much of the Orc-talk was intelligible, as the Orcs resorted to 'ordinary language' to better communicate with each other it seems. And at one point an Orc says something in his abominable tongue, and then spoke to Pippin in the Common Speech, for example. Edit: he said Last edited by Galin : 10-13-2008 at 12:00 AM. |
10-13-2008, 12:02 AM | #52 |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Yeah I had a sneaking feeling that they spoke intelligbly to the hobbits..
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10-17-2008, 02:13 PM | #53 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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From another Forum:
Quote:
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11-10-2008, 08:07 PM | #54 |
Salt Miner
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Most of the story is told from the point of view of the various hobbits: Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, and Fatty Bolger. The adventures of the Three Hunters from the Emyn Muil to the entrance to the Paths of the Dead is told as if from Gimli’s perspective, or at least as if from his recollection. Only once, I think, are we given a view into Aragorn’s thinking, when he’s chasing after Sam when Frodo disappeared at Parth Galen; but never into the mind of any other character that I can recall.
Everything else, as far as I can recall, is told as if from the point of view of one of the (hobbit) observers: the expressions on Boromir’s face at the Council of Elrond, for instance; the actions of Legolas; and so forth. The end product reads as if it were constructed by the hobbits from their writings, notes, and recollections, with additional information gained from Gimli, along with emendations and explanations from the Gondorian scribes who copied the books for them. |
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