Announcement, all new members read: Keeping the Books and Movies separate - Page 3

Narsil's Master · 02-02-2003, 05:36 PM

it is good because some people haven't read the books

Finrod Felagund · 02-04-2003, 12:37 PM

THE MOVIES ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE BOOKS! IN SOME WAYS AT LEAST!

Narsil's Master · 02-07-2003, 08:32 PM

why do you make them separate?

***azalea*** · 02-07-2003, 10:17 PM

It's important to keep discussion of the movies out of the book forum because the movies are but one facet of the world of ME, and are someone else's interpretation of it at that. This forum needs to be kept "pure" of movie related stuff, because, well, they aren't the book, and cannot be used to discuss matters relating to the book. The book, however, is the basis for the movie, so of course you'll have book references in the movie forum. It just makes sense that if you wish to discuss ME as portrayed in the movie, you would post in the movie forum, which was specially made for that, and has many threads on many topics relating to the movie "world." It also helps to keep the discussion from being confusing, because you know what the posters are talking about when the two are kept separate, but when it gets mixed up, it's hard to tell sometimes. I hope this explains it sufficiently. And I want to thank all the 'mooters for helping out with this, it sure does make things easier!

Sir Gram · 02-28-2003, 12:59 AM

I have the un-abridged Hobbit, LOTR and the Return of the King on CD rom and would trade any one for a copy of Un-Abridged Two Towers. Un- Abridged means exactly as the author scribed it. Not a word changed, all foot notes and additional material in the books are included in the spoken word version of the books. These little devils are kind of spendy so lets barter, and see if we can keep each other out of the lockholes for being broke. I also have the BBC version of the Hobbit on CD, the 1979 Soundelux Audio (condenced) version of LOTR on CD and the Decca Demetriou production of the hobbit on Vinyl record. Yes I said record.
Look I'm not out to rip the publishers or family of Tolkien off, I just want to trade any of the above (except for records) for a copy of the Two Towers CD. NO more No less.
Being new I hope this has been posted in the correct section. If this is inappropriate or frowned upon please let me know, with things, and times being as hard as they currently are I really don't think old JRR would mind a little trading to share his vision and words. Sir Gram

***azalea*** · 02-28-2003, 02:50 PM

Actually this isn't the right thread for that. There's a LotR merchandise thread, which I believe is in the Movies forum. There are also a couple of threads about recordings of the books, etc., which you might want to do a search to find.

littlemissjess · 03-26-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
Recently I've seen a lot of posts about Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies in this thread, the movies are influencing judgements, dislike/like of characters, perspectives etc in Lord of the Rings books discussions. I have also seen obvious discussions about the movie in threads that should be about the books.

The books and the movie are separate, that's why we have two forums for both of them, when discussing the books use the Books forum, when discussing the movies use the movies forum. When the movies start being discussed in threads of this forum I will now consider them off-topic and I will take the usual procedure with very off-topic threads.

good idea

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-26-2003, 03:58 PM

Welcome to the Entmoot!

It's a great place to have fun and discuss the works of a stupendous genius, and a literary giant.

Lady of Rohan · 03-26-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
...discuss the works....

For some reason, I like to think of them as masterpeices.

I think that the books are WAY better then the movie, and it IS important to keep them seperate (but I'm sure that that has already been said).

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-26-2003, 05:24 PM

Ditto. Keep the books in a shrine, and the movies under the couch.

(I had to throw out several ruder places before I came up with couch...

)

Mrs. Maggott · 04-20-2003, 03:53 PM

The problem I am finding, especially among younger people, is that there is a confusion between the two. I have seen posts in the "book threads" on other forums which have identified character traits or plot devices that were limited to the films but I have never seen the reverse - that is, scenarios from the book being brought up in the film threads except as a matter of making a comparison between the two.

There can be no doubt that the images from the films are very persuasive and stay in the mind even for those who have read the book for years before the films were released. For instance, certainly the scenery in the films has supplanted most of our "imaginations" of the book's setting and the same can be said of the actors, costumes and sets. How many of us can envision anyone other than Ian McKellen as Gandalf after viewing the films? Again, many of us had our own interpretation of the physical aspects of the characters before the films that have been supplanted by their visual impact.

There is nothing inherently bad about the above, but it should be a warning to Tolkien lovers that many of those who are coming to the book after the films are going to labor under considerable confusion given the very large differences (especially in the character development) between book and films. I think much of what has been spoken about in this thread (people posting references to the films in the book threads) is a result of this basic confusion in the minds of many for whom exposure the book has been subsequent to their exposure to the films.

Wayfarer · 05-02-2003, 01:12 AM

Quote:

There can be no doubt that the images from the films are very persuasive and stay in the mind even for those who have read the book for years before the films were released. For instance, certainly the scenery in the films has supplanted most of our "imaginations" of the book's setting and the same can be said of the actors, costumes and sets. How many of us can envision anyone other than Ian McKellen as Gandalf after viewing the films?

Well, I, for one, do not see the images of the films when I think about tolkien's world. ]:-)

Mrs. Maggott · 05-02-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Well, I, for one, do not see the images of the films when I think about tolkien's world. ]:-)

Then you are one of the fortunate few for most of us have been influenced by these films and especially the younger viewers who have yet to read the book or at least not read it with the understanding of someone who is more mature. The problem here, however, is not the "images" but the context in which the images were projected, the devolution and deviation in the characters and plot which have yet to be fully realized until the last film is released. I tell you that Jackson may well have Gollum's fall into the Fire be an act of self-sacrifice rather than simple accident - and that changes everything as far as the meaning of the story is concerned.

Elfhelm · 05-07-2003, 01:37 PM

Interesting point! If they had change EVERYTHING, as Spielberg did with The Minority Report, it wouldn't be possible to co-opt the reader's mind. When you read the Minority Report, there is just no chance that ANY image from the movie can fit the actual text. So PJ is damned for deviating from the book, and damned for adhering to it. It sure makes it easy for me to be a snob now. Thanks.

Mrs. Maggott · 05-07-2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Interesting point! If they had change EVERYTHING, as Spielberg did with The Minority Report, it wouldn't be possible to co-opt the reader's mind. When you read the Minority Report, there is just no chance that ANY image from the movie can fit the actual text. So PJ is damned for deviating from the book, and damned for adhering to it. It sure makes it easy for me to be a snob now. Thanks.

Minority Report does not compare as a work of literature or as a "cult classic" to LOTR. If Spielberg changed "everything" about the plot and characters (and I wouldn't know as I didn't read the book), then that was his choice. I daresay he was funded because he was Spielberg and not because he was filming Minority Report.

On the other hand, Jackson was most definitely funded and supported by the audience because of LOTR and not because he was Jackson. Under those circumstances, he owed it to both his backers and his audience to make every effort to remain faithful to the original source at least as far as was possible given the difference in medium - and frankly I don't think anyone can make that assertion at least with a straight face!

Elfhelm · 05-07-2003, 07:41 PM

Tell that to a Phillip K. Dick fan. I personally find Dick to be one of the top writers of the 20th century.

Anyway, this is the books forum.

Mrs. Maggott · 05-07-2003, 07:49 PM

Sorry! I was "advised" by e-mail of the post to which I responded and did not look at the forum. Naturally, I assumed since the film was mentioned, it was a film forum. Again, my apologies.

I have begun the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. I have really only started the first book (about 100 pages or so) and it is very interesting - and certainly no one could accuse Pullman of aping Tolkien even with Oxford as one of his settings!

Turambar1982 · 10-25-2003, 07:43 AM

I have begun the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. I have really only started the first book (about 100 pages or so) and it is very interesting - and certainly no one could accuse Pullman of aping Tolkien even with Oxford as one of his settings! [/B][/QUOTE]

Those books are awesome! you can't compare to LOTR. but still

Mrs. Maggott · 10-25-2003, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turambar1982
I have begun the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. I have really only started the first book (about 100 pages or so) and it is very interesting - and certainly no one could accuse Pullman of aping Tolkien even with Oxford as one of his settings! Those books are awesome! you can't compare to LOTR. but still

Pullman is/was an atheist. He wrote His Dark Materials as a challenge/protest not to Tolkien, but to C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia. He wanted a definitely secular science fiction fantasy series for children to counter Lewis's profoundly Christian effort. Frankly, having read it, I think it falls far short of Lewis's work if for no other reason than it ends without hope - which, if you consider it, is the entire problem with a totally secular philosophy.

Nerdanel · 12-15-2003, 05:47 PM

I'm VERY new on this site, and this was the first thing I saw.

It's absolutely very important to keep them apart. If you've never read the books, you can't see the deapth in the movie. One can't describe the feeling you get from reading the books.

Also, I think that it isn't good to see the movies before you read the books. I unfortunately did that with the first LotR book, and it sort of stops you from making your own pictures of the characters. But somehow I managed, maybe because I saw the big difference between the characters described in the books vs the ones in the books.

Love to all Tolkien-lovers!

02-02-2003, 05:36 PM	#41
Narsil's Master Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Indian,USA Posts: 109	it is good because some people haven't read the books __________________ naur an edraith amen, naur dan i ngaurhoth! well your on fire now. go team fencing!!!! fingolfin rox elven sox

02-04-2003, 12:37 PM	#42
Finrod Felagund King of Nargothrond Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada! eh? Posts: 2,002	THE MOVIES ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE BOOKS! IN SOME WAYS AT LEAST! __________________ "THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!"

02-07-2003, 08:32 PM	#43
Narsil's Master Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Indian,USA Posts: 109	why do you make them separate? __________________ naur an edraith amen, naur dan i ngaurhoth! well your on fire now. go team fencing!!!! fingolfin rox elven sox

02-28-2003, 12:59 AM	#45
Sir Gram Sapling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Myrtle Creek Oregon Posts: 4	Books on CD Rom I have the un-abridged Hobbit, LOTR and the Return of the King on CD rom and would trade any one for a copy of Un-Abridged Two Towers. Un- Abridged means exactly as the author scribed it. Not a word changed, all foot notes and additional material in the books are included in the spoken word version of the books. These little devils are kind of spendy so lets barter, and see if we can keep each other out of the lockholes for being broke. I also have the BBC version of the Hobbit on CD, the 1979 Soundelux Audio (condenced) version of LOTR on CD and the Decca Demetriou production of the hobbit on Vinyl record. Yes I said record. Look I'm not out to rip the publishers or family of Tolkien off, I just want to trade any of the above (except for records) for a copy of the Two Towers CD. NO more No less. Being new I hope this has been posted in the correct section. If this is inappropriate or frowned upon please let me know, with things, and times being as hard as they currently are I really don't think old JRR would mind a little trading to share his vision and words. Sir Gram

03-26-2003, 03:58 PM	#48
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Welcome to the Entmoot! It's a great place to have fun and discuss the works of a stupendous genius, and a literary giant. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

02-07-2003, 10:17 PM	#44
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	It's important to keep discussion of the movies out of the book forum because the movies are but one facet of the world of ME, and are someone else's interpretation of it at that. This forum needs to be kept "pure" of movie related stuff, because, well, they aren't the book, and cannot be used to discuss matters relating to the book. The book, however, is the basis for the movie, so of course you'll have book references in the movie forum. It just makes sense that if you wish to discuss ME as portrayed in the movie, you would post in the movie forum, which was specially made for that, and has many threads on many topics relating to the movie "world." It also helps to keep the discussion from being confusing, because you know what the posters are talking about when the two are kept separate, but when it gets mixed up, it's hard to tell sometimes. I hope this explains it sufficiently. And I want to thank all the 'mooters for helping out with this, it sure does make things easier!

02-28-2003, 02:50 PM	#46
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Actually this isn't the right thread for that. There's a LotR merchandise thread, which I believe is in the Movies forum. There are also a couple of threads about recordings of the books, etc., which you might want to do a search to find.

03-26-2003, 05:24 PM	#50
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Ditto. Keep the books in a shrine, and the movies under the couch. (I had to throw out several ruder places before I came up with couch...) __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-20-2003, 03:53 PM	#51
Mrs. Maggott Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 59	The problem I am finding, especially among younger people, is that there is a confusion between the two. I have seen posts in the "book threads" on other forums which have identified character traits or plot devices that were limited to the films but I have never seen the reverse - that is, scenarios from the book being brought up in the film threads except as a matter of making a comparison between the two. There can be no doubt that the images from the films are very persuasive and stay in the mind even for those who have read the book for years before the films were released. For instance, certainly the scenery in the films has supplanted most of our "imaginations" of the book's setting and the same can be said of the actors, costumes and sets. How many of us can envision anyone other than Ian McKellen as Gandalf after viewing the films? Again, many of us had our own interpretation of the physical aspects of the characters before the films that have been supplanted by their visual impact. There is nothing inherently bad about the above, but it should be a warning to Tolkien lovers that many of those who are coming to the book after the films are going to labor under considerable confusion given the very large differences (especially in the character development) between book and films. I think much of what has been spoken about in this thread (people posting references to the films in the book threads) is a result of this basic confusion in the minds of many for whom exposure the book has been subsequent to their exposure to the films. __________________ Mrs. M. "A Queen among farmer's wives"

05-07-2003, 01:37 PM	#54
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Interesting point! If they had change EVERYTHING, as Spielberg did with The Minority Report, it wouldn't be possible to co-opt the reader's mind. When you read the Minority Report, there is just no chance that ANY image from the movie can fit the actual text. So PJ is damned for deviating from the book, and damned for adhering to it. It sure makes it easy for me to be a snob now. Thanks. __________________ cya

05-07-2003, 07:41 PM	#56
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Tell that to a Phillip K. Dick fan. I personally find Dick to be one of the top writers of the 20th century. Anyway, this is the books forum. __________________ cya

05-07-2003, 07:49 PM	#57
Mrs. Maggott Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 59	Sorry! I was "advised" by e-mail of the post to which I responded and did not look at the forum. Naturally, I assumed since the film was mentioned, it was a film forum. Again, my apologies. I have begun the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. I have really only started the first book (about 100 pages or so) and it is very interesting - and certainly no one could accuse Pullman of aping Tolkien even with Oxford as one of his settings! __________________ Mrs. M. "A Queen among farmer's wives"

10-25-2003, 07:43 AM	#58
Turambar1982 Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: gera, thuringia, germany Posts: 29	I have begun the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. I have really only started the first book (about 100 pages or so) and it is very interesting - and certainly no one could accuse Pullman of aping Tolkien even with Oxford as one of his settings! [/B][/QUOTE] Those books are awesome! you can't compare to LOTR. but still

12-15-2003, 05:47 PM	#60
Nerdanel Spammer of the Happy Thread Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 3,512	I'm VERY new on this site, and this was the first thing I saw. It's absolutely very important to keep them apart. If you've never read the books, you can't see the deapth in the movie. One can't describe the feeling you get from reading the books. Also, I think that it isn't good to see the movies before you read the books. I unfortunately did that with the first LotR book, and it sort of stops you from making your own pictures of the characters. But somehow I managed, maybe because I saw the big difference between the characters described in the books vs the ones in the books. Love to all Tolkien-lovers! __________________ "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page

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