02-14-2005, 02:16 PM | #41 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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IMO, it doesn't even matter if it's genetic or not.
TWFM - evolution (the theory as a whole) is NOT a fact, as any scientist with integrity would be sure to say.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-14-2005, 02:30 PM | #42 |
Quasi Evil
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oh boy here we go again....
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02-14-2005, 02:33 PM | #43 | |
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02-14-2005, 03:57 PM | #44 | |
Hobbit
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02-14-2005, 06:14 PM | #45 | |
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(I sure hope you would agree with that, IRex - you seem to think the truth is important )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-14-2005, 06:49 PM | #46 | |||
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Actually, though I do favour some theories over others, I don't particularly care if being gay is genetic or hormonal, a choice or not... or some combination, or something else. The human brain is a complicated thing. I still think being gay is good and right no matter what of the above turns out to be true. Personally I think it's hormonal, but meh. EDIT: This could be taken the wrong way... I mean, isn't all sexuality hormonal? *nudge nudge wink wink* What I mean is, I think it's a hormonal development in the brain that occurs when you are still a foetus. I guess that same development would occur in straight people to cause heterosexuality. OT: Evolution is quite an interesting theory. It has flaws, but all in all I think it's quite a good theory. Should we bump that thread?
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02-14-2005, 06:51 PM | #47 |
The Intermittent One
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evolution has flaws? what like linoleum?
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02-14-2005, 09:16 PM | #48 | ||
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The study of the basis of sexual orientation is in its infancy. What is being published at the moment are the very first attempts that might well be overturned 180 degrees. I encourage these very first attempts because you have to start somewhere but I don't take them as conclusive. Also I have not read the study fully, but I seem to understand that they don't rule out at all that homosexuality has a genetic basis, it only rules out that it has a basis in the specific zones they looked at, when these zones are taken in isolation Quote:
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02-15-2005, 07:12 AM | #49 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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So homesexuality is more complex than simply blaming it on one gene. I thought we already knew that. The fact that homosexuality isn't directly determined by a gene, does not mean that it must simply be a choice of an individual. Hm, I have the feeling I'm repeating what other people have already said before...
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02-15-2005, 10:32 AM | #50 |
Elf Lord
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It is pesky Earniel because some people playing scientism assert as fact rank falsehoods on merest of suggestion. If you think I am being overblown, check out the disaster befalling the Anglican Communion because of the false assertions 1) homosexuality is an in-born genetic trait beyond the control of the individual, and 2) moral standards of indisputable antiquity and cross-cultural establishment are erroneous, and 3) we discard those standards based on this "evidence".
It is a real world issue based on the ASSUMPTION without VERIFICATION. That's why the data is pesky. It keeps getting the way. Remember the old axiom of scientism, "I know what I want/need/desire (the data to say). DO NOT CONFUSE ME WITH FACTS (or the lack of them)."
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-15-2005, 11:09 AM | #51 | ||
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Not everyone uses data like that Inked.
Anglicans are far from unified on this issue, so I don't imagine that the "pro-gay-marriage" and "anti-gay-marriage" sides are unified in their respective reasonings either. Being in the "pro-gay-marriage" camp, I can say that personally, the reason that I support gay marriage is because my heart tells me, very forcefully, that being gay is good and right. Maybe it's God telling me that. This is one of my strongest beliefs, so maybe it is God telling me this. But that's another thread. As I said before, it doesn't matter to me why people are gay, just that they are gay, and I think that's just fine. We have the chance to help end discrimination based on sexual orientation! Finally! After 100s of years of persecution. I want to be among those that take this opportunity, because it's the right thing to do. I don't believe in arbitrarily throwing out traditions, but I do believe that people are more important than traditions. When traditions interfere with human rights, I see no reason to keep them.
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02-15-2005, 11:35 AM | #52 | ||||
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Moreover, "cross-cultural" is also an overstatement. Homosexuality was forbidden in some scriptures of ancient Judaism and from there it migrated to cristianity. But there was no equivalent prohibition in Greece, Rome or Egypt at that time. Nor there had been any prohibition of homosexuality in the history of Japan before WW2. Of other culture I don't know/remember, but I am fairly certain that it is not the majority that prohibted same-sex relations before christianity influenced them last century. Quote:
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02-15-2005, 12:15 PM | #53 |
Elf Lord
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You can check out the available data on a variety of Anglican sites or ECUSA.org but the contentions of the Presiding Bishop and the House of Bishops issued in January are clear as are those of the dissidents in a Minority Report. Try here http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=1929
Given the nature of your individual claim to be the sole arbiter of ethics and morals, I fail to see any justification for your assessments as noted above. If, on the other hand, you really believe that there is common ground to make the assertions you do about moral values, I would love to have you elucidate them. Else, TWFM, we are not in the same universe by other than merest chance!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-15-2005 at 01:04 PM. Reason: link correction |
02-15-2005, 12:50 PM | #54 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Personally, I think the evidence supports creationism more than evolutionism. You probably think the evidence supports evolutionism more than creationism. Each of us need to look at the evidence and make up our own mind.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-15-2005 at 12:54 PM. |
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02-15-2005, 02:07 PM | #55 | |
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02-15-2005, 02:18 PM | #56 | |
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02-15-2005, 02:20 PM | #57 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-15-2005, 05:01 PM | #58 |
Hobbit
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how did we get from gay and lesbians to evolution?
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02-15-2005, 05:07 PM | #59 |
Quasi Evil
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wait till we wind up talking about monks and breweries.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
02-15-2005, 05:32 PM | #60 | |
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ juicybear "how did we get from gay and lesbians to evolution?" __________________ I can't believe you guys do not know how we got from GLBT to evolution, its a natural progression (remember >99% of mutations are degenerative not progressive!). But, the end of monks and breweries is a good mutation because BEER is the whole point of evolution! (until distillation allows Scotch, of course!)
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-15-2005 at 05:33 PM. |
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