The Official Languages Thread

[Artanis]

I can only speak of Norwegians - almost everyone speak English here, but more or less fluently, according to how much practise they've had. We have of course a great advantage in that we are exposed to English/American books, movies, TV-series (subtitled, not dubbed!), music, magazines, newspapers etc. all along. All children learn English at school, starting when they're about 8-9 yrs old. When I was young (alas - too many years ago, I've forgotten so much!) I also got to learn one language more, I could choose between German and French, and chose German. If I knew then what I know now, I think I would have chosen French instead, simply because it seems that Germans speak English much better than French people.

I've had some Frensh lessons and know some of the basics, but I think I would be in serious trouble if I were to be left alone in a small French countryside village.

And I'm currently trying to learn Spanish, but I don't get to practise so a Spaniard would probably not understand much of my talking.

As for the EU to use only one language, I think it will impossible for a long time to come. Personally I cringe at the mere thought of it. Should I abandon Norwegian for, let's say, English? No! Language is too much tied up with national identity, culture and history to give it up. And I would say Europeans are very aware of their nationality! Yes, something would certainly be lost.

[Valandil]

Hmmm... brings to mind another American phenomenon. Remember that the vast majority of us are displaced Europeans. Yet, most of us don't at all speak the language of our European ancestors (unless it was English ). In fact, for many of us, THAT would be 4 or 6 or whatever languages.

What has been observed, I believe, is this: The generation that immigrates to America tries very hard to hold onto the language and culture they had in "the old country"... we still see this in major metropolitan areas like my own Chicago (most immigrants head toward an urban center) where there are enclaves of different language-speaking groups. In the past, that was Italian, German, Swedish, Polish, etc. Now it's Spanish (often sub-divided by country of origin), Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Indian, Arabic... still some Polish, Russian and other eastern European groups - and a little of about everything else.

The NEXT generation often wants to abandon all that... they want to 'fit in' with all the other people their age - maybe they're rebelling against their parents too. But they often end up rejecting the language and culture of their parents' homeland (not sure if this is so true of the Asian immigrant cultures).

The generation following is often curious about the culture and language of the immigrant grandparents.

My own situation is a little different. My father's family can be traced to these shores from about the 1690's - but my mother was an immigrant (born in a German-speaking town in Czechoslovakia - they moved to Austria after the war). So we never spoke German at home (my father didn't speak it) but I think my siblings and I felt an attachment to our Germanic heritage. Most of us took German language in high school. We also lived in small-town America, far from any urban centers... immigrants were rare until we moved to a university town when I was 11 or 12.

[Jonathan]

I speak Swedish, English and French fluently. I can also speak a bit of Spanish. The Swedes are in general fluent in English. Like the Norwegians Artanis mentioned, we are exposed to English everyday through books, magazines, TV etc. Unlike the French, German and Italians, we never dub our films, we subtitle them.
In Sweden the kids start with English at an early age and then they get to choose another language to learn as well. Often they choose from French, German or Spanish.

Most people I know speak multiple languages, like 3, 4 or even 5 languages.

I don’t think we will ever see a single language take over the EU. Like Artanis said the languages of the member states are closely tied up with their national identities, and the European countries will always try to protect their identities.
Something would indeed be lost if Europe was to give up all its languages for say English.

I don’t think that too much time is spent on languages. Like you, Valandil, said the situation is different than in the US. Our neighbours don’t speak the same language as we do, so it is necessary to learn languages so that you can communicate with them. It is a lot easier to manage in a foreign country if you know the language, you can understand what is said on TV, you can understand signs in the street and read newspapers, and you can talk with people. Even though many understand English, not all of them do. Then you might have to speak German or Spanish or another language which they might understand.
Also, by learning a lot of languages you get even better at understanding other languages which you haven’t been taught. For example, by knowing French and Spanish you can manage quite well in Italy since the Italian language is quite similar.

The Europeans also get to practice their language skills almost whenever they travel. Countries with other languages are not far away, as is the case with the US.
Though, for many Frenchmen it is a bit prestigious not to speak any other language than French. Some kind of national pride. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have heard that many Americans think the same way, that it is sort of elegant to only speak English.

[edit] Added Swedish to the list of languages that I speak. My mother tongue

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Though, for many Frenchmen it is a bit prestigious not to speak any other language than French. Some kind of national pride. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have heard that many Americans think the same way, that it is sort of elegant to only speak English.

I don't know anyone that I've heard say so. Many Americans don't learn languages beyond English (or if they had coursework in HS, quickly forget it) for two major reasons: (1) Lack of opportunity or even need to use them - and (2) Basic Human Laziness.

Most people here view one as a bit more cultured if they can speak additional languages. We're likely to be quite impressed when we meet someone who can speak 4 or 5 or more (lots of Africans I've met speak like 7 or something!!!).

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Valandil
How many languages do you speak?

I speak Dutch and English fluently. Though I've started to think of late that my English vocabulary is not so extended as I hoped and thought. I know French well enough and with a little luck I would probably be able to get around on my own in France with what I know. My German is less, but due to its likeness to Dutch, I can understand a good portion of it. Of Spanish I know only the very basics, I could only follow the course for 1 year. Of French, German and Spanish I understand more than I speak it. Especially since I also have the embarrasing gift of terribly mangling languages while trying to speak them.

For those on the continent - do most people you know speak multiple languages? Especially more than two - like 3-4 or more?

Those of around my age usually know enough Dutch, French and English. But then languages are given quite frequently in schools in Flanders. Especially French since it's the second national language in Belgium. Though most people pick up English much faster than French. And Dutch is a good language to start out and learn other languages.

Do you feel that too much of your time is spent learning a variety of languages - when if there was only one to learn, the additional time would be freed up for better use?

Yes and no. While I often looked foreward with dread to my French and German courses, and though I probably seldom will have to use them in my life unless I go a-travelling, knowing them provides a sort of feeling of security. I'm much happier here on the language thread with my knowledge of different languages than without.

Is there - or do you expect there to be - a move in the European Union to push a single language? If so, which language do you expect it to be? Do you feel something would be lost if all Europe (say, 100 years from now) largely spoke a single language? Or would that be a net good?

A single language would have advantages but frankly I think we can best do without it for still quite a while. English would possibly be the most likely candidate. But language is often tied with culture and identity, not everyone will look foreward to giving it up. I for one plan to hang on to my Flemish very, very hard! The world would be a bleaker place without Dutch and the other European languages, trust me.

[Nerdanel]

Originally posted by Valandil
Some questions for my European Mooter friends:

How many languages do you speak? For those on the continent - do most people you know speak multiple languages? Especially more than two - like 3-4 or more?

Do you feel something would be lost if all Europe (say, 100 years from now) largely spoke a single language? Or would that be a net good?

I speak swedish, finnish and english fluently, and I'm trying to learn some german. I've read it for almost 5 years now, but it's kind of hard.. In Finland everyone has to read finnish, swedish and english, but in the eastern parts of the country, most people don't speak swedish very good, since they never get to practice it.

As a swedish-speaking finn I'm part of a minority. We differ quite a lot from the finnish-speaking finns, and our language is very important to us. On top of that, finns get frightened very quickly, if someone mentions such an idea. Before we became independent, the russian leaders of that time tried to make russian the language of Finland. So I absoultely think there would be a cultural loss if we just had one language in Europe. Hope it'll never happen!

[Linaewen]

Hey, Eärniel. How do you say 'my brain is fried' in Nederlands?
Do write some more in Flemish, that lovely language of yours, similar to other Germanic languages but with double letters everywhere.

[Earniel]

Mijn hersens zijn gefrituurd.

Of course since 'fried' has different meanings, the Dutch sentence will change with the different meaning. I used it here in the way that belgian fries are fried. It seemed appropriate.

De eerste sneeuw die valt
op de stille stad omwald.
Het kleurt de vele daken wit,
en spaart ook de wegen niet.
En valt de sneeuw snel of traag,
de kinderen zien het even graag.

[Linaewen]

Das ist sehr schön! What is it? I like it so much I've put it in my sig. (Underneath all that Swede stuff )

Thanks! Still can't understand much Dutch The other Germanic languages are easier for me to understand.

[Earniel]

It's a just little poem about the first snow. We got a nice layer of snow on new yearsday, which is rather rare so I thought of posting that.

Shall I translate it?

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Shall I translate it?

Please... into English, if you would!

My German is rusty, but I can still guess at a little of it... but like I say, I'm even forgetting my German now.

The first snow (of) the ___?
On the quiet town ___?
...
...
...
The children, their ___? ___? ___?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Valandil
Please... into English, if you would!

*is much tempted now to translate it into French just because*

You have translated correctly:

The first snow ______
On the quiet town ___
....
...
...
The children, ______

[Linaewen]

Wir haben die gleichen Wörter verstanden, Valandil!

*Awaits translation into French, or even better, Swedish or English*

C'è qualcuno che parla italiano? Cin cin! (I find that 'Cin cin' meaning 'cheers' is funny)

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Wir haben die gleichen Wörter verstanden, Valandil!

Don't know about you, but the easy words are about all I'm good for anymore... besides, never had a lick of Belgian! (How do you say 'never had a lick of' in Belgian anyway?)

My German used to be pretty strong... took 3 years in HS with a very good teacher (all her students did well in state-wide tests)... but with all the intervening years, and the vary rare opportunities (and no real need) to practice, it's fading more and more...

Oder, soll ich sagen?: Ich habe drei Jahre Deutsch in der Hoch Schule gehabt... mit einer sehr gute Lehrerin!

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Valandil
Don't know about you, but the easy words are about all I'm good for anymore... besides, never had a lick of Belgian! (How do you say 'never had a lick of' in Belgian anyway?)

It depends on which Belgian language you mean- their dialects of Dutch, French or German.

My German used to be pretty strong... took 3 years in HS with a very good teacher (all her students did well in state-wide tests)... but with all the intervening years, and the vary rare opportunities (and no real need) to practice, it's fading more and more...

People achieve a certain degree of fluency by the end of their VCE (Victorian version of your SAT or something?), but they usually forget it quickly for the same reasons as you. Though I have no intention of forgetting my languages.

Oder, soll ich sagen?: Ich habe drei Jahre Deutsch in der Hoch Schule gehabt... mit einer sehr gute Lehrerin!

Ich habe Deutsch für zwei Minuten gelernt.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
It depends on which Belgian language you mean- their dialects of Dutch, French or German.

Ooohh... I did not know they DID that!

People achieve a certain degree of fluency by the end of their VCE (Victorian version of your SAT or something?), but they usually forget it quickly for the same reasons as you. Though I have no intention of forgetting my languages.

Good luck with that.

Ich habe Deutsch für zwei Minuten gelernt.

You're a quick study!!!

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
It depends on which Belgian language you mean- their dialects of Dutch, French or German.

You can expect those things when your country has three national languages. Though I can't tell you how much the Walonian (Belgian French) and the Belgian German differ from the original languages. But I doubt it'd be much.

Here's the translation of the little poem, but it doesn't rhyme anymore.

The first snow that falls
on the quiet walled town.
It colours the many roofs white,
en also doesn't spare the roads.
And falls the snow fast or slow,
The children like it just as gladly.

Oh Lin, here's another thing for your sig: "De Zweden komen!"

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Valandil

You're a quick study!!!

Ich habe ein gutes Wörterbuch und meine Sätze nicht zu lang sind (für du, Lai )

Posted by Eärniel
Oh Lin, here's another thing for your sig: "De Zweden komen!"

I love it when you people accidentally leave words in your native tongue in English context. (Poem)

I kept forgetting to ask you for that. Dank je wel! (Det verkar som jag altid säger 'tack' för nånting.)

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Ich habe ein gutes Wörterbuch und meine Sätze nicht zu lang sind (für du, Lai )


I love it when you people accidentally leave words in your native tongue in English context. (Poem)

I kept forgetting to ask you for that. Dank je wel! (Det verkar som jag altid säger 'tack' för nånting.)

Här är en till som jag snickrat ihop: ruotsalainen olla kotoisin! (Svenskarna kommer! (finish translation))

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Grey_Wolf
... snickrat ihop...

snickrat ihop?.... *bursts into laughter*

edit: I'm sorry... that just couldn't be helped.