05-26-2006, 05:57 PM | #561 | ||
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05-26-2006, 06:14 PM | #562 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-26-2006, 06:39 PM | #563 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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05-26-2006, 06:42 PM | #564 | |
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1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. |
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05-26-2006, 06:57 PM | #565 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-26-2006, 07:02 PM | #566 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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So what you're saying is that you are sinless therefore you can judge me?
not you personally, by the way... |
05-26-2006, 07:09 PM | #567 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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I won't be online for a while.
What I am saying is, Jesus is clearly telling us that we have a FIRST RESPONSIBILITY for our own salvation. And to me it is clear that he considers it hypocritical to run around trying to save other people. That is not our job. That's what the pearls before swine part means. What I am saying is: This was not supposed to be a religion of telling other people how to live their lives. It was supposed to be a personal thing between us and God. Please stop saying that I am judging you for judging by trying to elucidate this very important fact. That is not what I am doing. I am trying to save Jesus' teachings from the modern Sadducees. The modern Sadducees is my term for people who turn Jesus into a politician. And I think you'll find gay people in heaven. Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-26-2006 at 07:12 PM. |
05-26-2006, 08:02 PM | #568 | |||||
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I appreciate this passage particularly now, because in college for many days I tried to debate with someone who loved to argue, but who had a hateful disposition and mocked and derided Christianity. He would never have listened to anything I was saying, but took great pleasure in arrogantly looking down at me and others, and making snide and condescending remarks. Anyway, he was a thorough pill. I've met very few of them in my life. He is the only person I know who has bothered me so intensely. Yet at that time, I devoted hours to debating with him and trying to show him the truth about Christianity. I should have heeded this scripture: "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Listening to Jesus on that occasion would have saved me a lot of frustration. Quote:
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Wrongful inaction can be an equal crime to wrongful action. If I refuse to help someone who's being abused, Jesus says I will be treated the same way at the Final Judgment. I refused to help someone who was oppressed, so I will not be helped when I am oppressed. My refusal to judge a criminal's crime against someone else means that God will not judge the criminal who comes against me. What I do to others will be done unto me. What I don't do to others won't be done to me. If I don't judge someone's actions as self-destructive and attempt to help that person, my self-destructive actions won't be judged and no one will attempt to help me. That's justice. It works both ways. Inaction as well as action will be judged. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-26-2006, 10:42 PM | #569 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-26-2006 at 10:43 PM. |
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05-27-2006, 01:04 AM | #570 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-27-2006, 12:06 PM | #571 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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I don't know about Rian, but I am referring to Luke 23:39-43.
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05-27-2006, 12:08 PM | #572 | |
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Lief, thanks for your very thoughtful reply. I read it in depth several times, and while we disagree on a few points, I don't want to detract from it by arguing... just yet
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05-27-2006, 06:59 PM | #573 | |
Elf Lord
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You have seen something you feel is wrong being done, and so you are taking action to prevent the wrong. You've judged an action as wrong, and so you are taking counter-measures. It's a moral judgment.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 05-27-2006 at 07:00 PM. |
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05-30-2006, 04:05 PM | #574 | |
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I am trying to find out what is RIGHT and preserve it. There is no judgement of others involved. If others perceive a judgement, it might be from within. For instance... If I say that Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" and someone thinks I am judging them for supporting war, but they want to be a Christian, then OF COURSE, they will say I am judging them and will attempt to use this silly, silly, obviously twisted logic to squirm out of Jesus' very clear statement. But that judgement DID NOT COME FROM ME. So, again, I ask you to STOP SAYING THAT I AM JUDGING YOU when I quote Jesus. In short, If I say that Jesus said "blessed are the peacemakers" and you think I said "cursed are the warriors", then you shouldn't be asking ME not to make judgements because, you see, I didn't say that and neither did he. Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-30-2006 at 04:15 PM. |
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05-31-2006, 06:06 PM | #575 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Hector's Top Christian Reading
1) The Everlasting Man, G.K. Chesterton/Ignatius, also Orthodoxy
2) The Orthodox Church, Timothy Ware/Penguin Religion 3) Catechism of the Catholic Church/Image Doubleday 4) Everything by C.S. Lewis, esp. Mere Christianity and Miracles. 5) Socrates meets Jesus, Peter Kreeft, also The Journey/IVP 6) The Da Vinci Hoax, Sandra Miesal and [?] Olson/Ignatius A word about The Da Vinci Hoax: it's by two Catholics, WAY more researched than any other book of it's kind. It also is a considered book. Not rushed at all. Read it, you'll be surprised. A word about the Chesterton also. It's a tough read at first, mostly because of his classic language. But let me tell you, no one else can cut through arguments about history as well as he can.
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
05-31-2006, 06:58 PM | #576 |
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I have estimated that if I read one book a week and I live to an average age, I can only read about 1,500 more books before I die. I already regret the second last book I read as a vast waste of time (even though I'm playing devil's advocate on it's thread).
My list of must-read books begins with the scripture of the world's religions and then moves to philosophers. So... The Tao Te King The Analects of Confucious The Dhamapada The Lotus Sutra The New Testament (Jerusalem Bible translation) The writings of Baha'ulah then Plato's Republic Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics Boethius Consolation of Philosophy Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, Critique of Judgement Nietsche Beyond Good and Evil Marx Capital then Whitman Leaves of Grass Pound Cantos Williams Paterson H.D. Trilogy Zukofsky "A" Olson Maximus Enslin Ranger all will be read before I read that catechism again or anything by CS Lewis ever again! Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-31-2006 at 06:59 PM. |
05-31-2006, 07:00 PM | #577 |
Elf Lord
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HB,
No wonder you are so astute in so many things! Besides being very well audited in the musical venue, you are extremely well-read. IT would seem that thou art a genuine renaissance person! On your recommendation, I might read the rebuff to TDC - just to enlarge my borders and see what I might have missed on my own. Salute, HB, Salute! Elfhelm, Ah, now I understand! Pure prejudice! Iron may sharpen iron but no irony shall flex my rigidity!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 05-31-2006 at 07:02 PM. |
05-31-2006, 09:32 PM | #578 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I think I've read the Dhammapada; I read a collection of edited Buddhist texts, and I THINK one was the Dhammapada; however, it came across as so heavily editted, I'm going to find a different version to read it again. A friend offered to loan me her copy; maybe I'll take her up a the beginning of the school year. I have a copy of a book by Lao Tzu somewhere, called the Way of Life; I suppose it's the same as the Tao Te King. I also have a copy and commentary of the Koran, which is relatively high on my reading list. Your entire Philosophy selection is on the curriculum here at TAC; I've only read the Republic so far, though. I like it a lot.
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06-01-2006, 11:45 AM | #579 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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For eastern thought I am mostly drawn to Confucious these days.
But there is still an enormity of American Poetry of the 20th Century that beckons to me, and when I slip off for another few months, unheard from here, I will probably be deep in poetry. The closest thing to my "Bible" is Leaves of Grass. I fail to see how I'm the ONLY prejudiced person on this thread. |
06-01-2006, 11:50 AM | #580 |
Elf Lord
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Elfhelm,
ONLY prejudiced against CS Lewis, Sir. That was my statement! By the way, I enjoy Leaves of Grass by Whitman also.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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