02-01-2004, 01:41 PM | #561 | |
Elven Warrior
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Call them what you will I suppose, meant to be seen simply as religious leaders.
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
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02-08-2004, 01:18 PM | #562 |
Elven Warrior
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*listens to the crickets chirp*
Hrmm....I wonder if i killed the thread.......
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
02-08-2004, 02:39 PM | #563 | |
Elf Lord
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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02-21-2004, 02:54 PM | #564 |
The Blobbit
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Of course that's the point of religion is that it's something greater than man. Priests are fallible. Regardless what you say (and I don't know if this is worth my excommunication) even the highest ranking people in religion are still human.
That is the purpose of religion. If man knew everything, what would be the point in God. Like the babel fish in The Hitchhiker's Guide - 'God disappears in a puff of logic'. As a scientist, I remain a religious person. Surely order in general points to the idea of God not diminishes the notion of His existence. I do not consider it my duty to prove the existence of the 'celestial teacup'... don't get me started on Dawkins of the narrow mind. |
02-21-2004, 03:46 PM | #565 |
Elven Warrior
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I would like to hear the christian apologists ideas about how the earth was populated by humans early on.
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02-21-2004, 04:08 PM | #566 | |
"The Bomb"
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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02-21-2004, 07:40 PM | #567 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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02-22-2004, 12:30 AM | #568 | |||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-22-2004, 12:41 AM | #569 | |
Elven Warrior
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Is it the christian view that two people spawned the beginning of humanity?
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
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02-22-2004, 12:57 AM | #570 |
"The Bomb"
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You mean how the creation stories don't include dinosaurs and things that have been already proven through science? In that case, I'll inform you that Scientific Truth and Religious Truth are two entirely separate things, and not meant to be contrasted.
Scientific Truth relates to things that repeated physical tests have proven to be factually accurate. Religious Truth means that one firmly believes in it, and therefore, to their own personal selves, it is a fact. Or if you were refering to the inconsistency in Genesis, it is simply because it wasn't meant to be taken literally. *expects a bashing already* But for proof, just read it! There are two creation stories, and they blatantly contradict each other. The first one: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He took 6 days to create light, the sky, earth and seas, sun and moon, swimming creatures, land animals and humans in that order. He used only his commanding voice. On the seventh day he rested. The second one: Using his hands, God created the world: the land and the water. Then using the clay from the ground, he molded a man, Adam. He then planted a garden for the man to live in. Next, He made all sorts of plants and animals for the man to eat, and left it up to the man to name them. Later, He put Adam to sleep, and removed one of his ribs while he was sleeping. This he made into a woman. They aren't the same, not because the authors made a terrible mistake that was never corrected even millenia later, but because they didn't care. They were demonstrating certain points, not giving a narrative. Story #1 is only to say that God made everything in the universe, including Earth and Man, and he is allpowerful. Story #2 is only to say that God created the world, and created Man, and made Man in his image even, and wants us to be happy, even though we sin, and he can still punish us anyway. There aren't really any discrepencies in Genesis, but it's so often interperated the wrong way. (And you can't make this stuff up.) EDIT: Don't eat me, please. I don't mean to offend anyone.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 02-22-2004 at 12:59 AM. |
02-22-2004, 02:41 AM | #571 | |||
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I don't think you said anything offensive Bombadillo. Mooters are a little more thick-skinned.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-22-2004, 02:50 AM | #572 |
Elf Lord
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and you also have to remember that men did, in fact, write the Bible, not God Himself. Yes, the men were divinely inspired. But, as we all know, we make mistakes and contradict ourselves at some point () and some things about God are beyond mankinds reach, so the writers had to put things into terms they and other people could understand.
For example (and this is a personal belief, feel free to not believe it). God is sort of on a different plane. He created time, and thus is "outside" of it, in a sense. So, when it says in Genesis that the world was created in seven days, the writer was putting it in terms he understood. Most of us like to think of things occuring in a linear sense, with a specific amount of time set to them (it took x weeks to build this, and x months to build this). But because God is outside of time, something was "lost in translation" as it was written by the hand of a man. I hope that made sense.
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02-22-2004, 02:54 AM | #573 | ||||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-22-2004, 12:09 PM | #574 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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it must also be taken into account that there are countless creation myhs besides the christian one
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02-22-2004, 01:51 PM | #575 |
Elven Warrior
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You could compare with something completely different, like the general canadian west coast natives, who for a creation *note the signifigance of the word* "myth" where the raven opened a giant clam, and man and woman crawled out, creating humanity.
That's a very abbreviated version of it, but really creation myths were brought around to give us an answer to a question that during those times we simply did not, and simply could not phathom where exactly we came from. We created a story that seemed to make sense in accordance with our general beliefs and stuck to it. One potential reason between the two different myths in Genesis could be attributed to the fact that the bible has been re-written numerous times....including one addition that we have King James to thank for, and many pagans, wiccans, and witches will likely never forget is the addition of the word "heretic" I would love to get a copy of the origional bible written sometime in the BC....and compare it to todays bible....anyone see that one simpsons episode where a message being passed through a throng of people comes out with an additional "purple monkey dishwasher"? That's a very classic example of how one pure message can be severely altered and even bastardised through even 20 people....nevermind 2000+ years and thousands of contributors. I've got a number of qualms with the bible as it exists today....I myself have read the bible as it was intended to be read, like a book (*gasp* NOT A BOOK!?!) cover to cover. This is a fairly risque point, but jesus even said *I forget the exact words, i'll track it down and get the quote from the bible* that man should not worship god in a temple, that man should be able to simply worship god within himself...what exactly is a church...it's a christian temple....what did jesus say not to do....go to a temple to worship.... *Ends rant as he heads out the door to work* Comments? *Hides from potential smiters* I know that what i've said here can be somewhat controvercial, but it's all fact, not asumption.
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
02-22-2004, 02:34 PM | #576 | |
"The Bomb"
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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02-22-2004, 03:15 PM | #577 |
Elf Lord
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Actually, a church is any place where to people meet in the name/to worship God. The church system of today was set up by mankind (and started with the Catholic church). I don't think Jesus was necessarily saying that church/temples were "bad", but that you shouldn't use them soley for worship, or say you're Christian just because you go to a building and go through the mtions (I know of Wiccans who regularly attend church and even teach Sunday School), because true worship is within yourself.
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02-22-2004, 04:49 PM | #578 | |
The Blobbit
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The messiness is all human. Look at science. If I throw a ball into the air it comes down. If I throw it again harder, it goes higher and comes down later. Rubbish example, but all the world can be quantified (pretty much). But sure the 'God of Chaos' from Eddie Izzard's Glorious works too. |
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02-22-2004, 04:50 PM | #579 |
The Blobbit
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RE: creationalism.
It doesn't work. It like most else is a metaphor. How would you propose you explain evolution to a less technologically advanced world? |
02-22-2004, 05:49 PM | #580 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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