Abortion.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

All right then, you got me there...but what about those who are barren, or nearly so? I'm afraid your generalisatio just will not work.

The thing about people who accuse others of being vague and general, is that they're never willing to think about the actual issue. ...when I say Women, I mean all the women WHO WILL, and that will be a majority...

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Hello, welcome and

Yeah it's funny that.

Mind you, I'm sure there a few gray haired old women who are grateful for sildenafil. Maybe THAT'S the secret of your mum's lustrous locks, Hector.

My mom is anti-makeup, how on earth would she agree to the sildenafil?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Arien the Maia

I say yes to that. I'm against all forms of artificial contraceptives.

And natural contraceptives, when there is not a good reason for them.

Originally Posted by hec

The thing about people who accuse others of being vague and general, is that they're never willing to think about the actual issue. ...when I say Women, I mean all the women WHO WILL, and that will be a majority...

So, then, all women who will have dozens of children, will have dozens of children? Your logic is simply impeccable, dear.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

And natural contraceptives, when there is not a good reason for them.

interesting point...what is a good reason? how about when you're done having kids and you want your family to stay the same size?

[The Gaffer]

Singing:

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

And natural contraceptives, when there is not a good reason for them.



So, then, all women who will have dozens of children, will have dozens of children? Your logic is simply impeccable, dear.

That WAS what I said, yes...it'll be the new trend.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Singing:

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Ha ha! I was thinking the exact same thing. Terrifying really.

Do the people who believe this way think it should be legislated on others? And how do you enforce it?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Arien the Maia

interesting point...what is a good reason? how about when you're done having kids and you want your family to stay the same size?

As I recall (I could be mistaken about this), not being able to financially support a child, or if some serious problem would arise from the birth of a child (i.e. if there is a serious risk of major defects, if the woman is too frail to bear a pregnancy, etc.).

The Church teaches that you shouldn't use NFP just as "Catholic contraceptives", making it a part of your life, but allows the use of it when it is necessary.

Originally Posted by Gaffer

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

Man: Those Catholics think they have to have a baby every time they have sex!
Woman: We do too, dear. We've had sex twice, and we have two children!

Originally Posted by IR

Do the people who believe this way think it should be legislated on others? And how do you enforce it?

People, or at least I, don't believe that way.

No, not contraception. It's wrong, but it's not as grave a wrong as murder. Along the lines of, say, missing Mass on a Sunday. Not something that should be legislated.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Man: Those Catholics think they have to have a baby every time they have sex!
Woman: We do too, dear. We've had sex twice, and we have two children!

Hehe.

When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in 1517, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing. But four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

As I recall (I could be mistaken about this), not being able to financially support a child, or if some serious problem would arise from the birth of a child (i.e. if there is a serious risk of major defects, if the woman is too frail to bear a pregnancy, etc.).

The Church teaches that you shouldn't use NFP just as "Catholic contraceptives", making it a part of your life, but allows the use of it when it is necessary.



Man: Those Catholics think they have to have a baby every time they have sex!
Woman: We do too, dear. We've had sex twice, and we have two children!



People, or at least I, don't believe that way.

No, not contraception. It's wrong, but it's not as grave a wrong as murder. Along the lines of, say, missing Mass on a Sunday. Not something that should be legislated.

wouldn't family size have something to do with it as well? I know that when I feeli like I couldn't handle another child I would want to keep my family the same size...I mean am I supposed to keep popping out kids just b/c I can?

and isn't the Pill more wrong (so to speak) than say a barrier method b/c it has the properties of an abortificant? i.e. making the uterus hostile for implantation should it occur thus aborting the "embryo"

[Gwaimir Windgem]

But, Gaff, what if you wanted to wear NOTHING on it, whilst traipsing across Tower Bridge? You couldn't do that, I wager! I hear there's a certain movement in the Island Kingdom to keep you from wearing nothing on the upper storey, even!

I'd wager you could have worn anything on it before Marty Lu, as well; I doubt it was illegal, just condemned by the Church.

Certainly, the Pill is more wrong than a condom or a sponge, as it is destructive of life, whereas they are merely preventative.

I don't think family size is a sufficient reason to use NFP; I could be wrong, though. I'll get back to you on that one.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Arien the Maia

and isn't the Pill more wrong (so to speak) than say a barrier method b/c it has the properties of an abortificant? i.e. making the uterus hostile for implantation should it occur thus aborting the "embryo"

Actually the pill causes you to not release an egg. (Or do you mean the Morning After Pill/Plan B)?

edit:

Let the heathens spill theirs
On the dusty ground
God will make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.



edit2: What's NFP? And what's natural and unnatural contraceptives?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Actually the pill causes you to not release an egg. (Or do you mean the Morning After Pill/Plan B)?


edit2: What's NFP? And what's natural and unnatural contraceptives?

actually the Pill does both...it's primary job is to prevent ovulation but should ovulation occur it makes the uterus a hostile environment thus preventing implantation. however it can fail as I have known people who have conceived while on the Pill/Patch.

NFP is Natural Family Planning and it is a natural form of contraception as opposed to artificial birth control which is unnatural (meaning you work against nature as opposed to working with it)

[Nurvingiel]

Oh yeah, I've heard of NFP. I just didn't recognize the acronym.

(I didn't know that about the pill, very interesting. I guess that's why it's reliable. Not perfect, but very reliable.)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, the morning-after Pill.

NFP = Natural Family Planning. Essentially, abstain from sex during high-fertility period.

Natural birth control: basically that. It means that you work within the natural system of pregnancy, taking it into account and basing attempts at contraception on that. Artificial (or "unnatural", to use your word) indicates forms which do not, but merely are intended to override the natural system, i.e. condom, sponge, pill, etc.

[Earniel]

It's curious but I can't help but wonder whether, supposing men were able to get pregnant too, I would have less men telling me what is right or wrong to do with one cell (and whatever develops from it) in my own body.

[Butterbeer]

get a lot of that do you?


..er... i take the point .... but then, isn't that equality?

(i mean technically ... who wants absent fathers? ... are we talking idealistically here or in General???)

best, BB

[Butterbeer]

..er... i just read that back ... just to be clear Eärniel ... that was not meant in any wierd way ....

best, BB

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It's curious but I can't help but wonder whether, supposing men were able to get pregnant too, I would have less men telling me what is right or wrong to do with one cell (and whatever develops from it) in my own body.

I can't really say, of course; no one can. But, hopefully, you would not. It's possible, of course, that the whole left-view is right; maybe, all of these things are just idiocies imposed by bigoted patriarchal societies with no respect for women, that certain backward cultures and religions cling to stupidly as they draw their last breath. It is certainly possible, but I don't, of course, believe that is the case.

If it is, of course, you would in all likelihood have less men telling you (etc.). And if it isn't, then probably it would be the same as it is now.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

No, not contraception. It's wrong, but it's not as grave a wrong as murder. Along the lines of, say, missing Mass on a Sunday. Not something that should be legislated.

Why is it wrong, besides the interpretation from the bible that it is against god's will.

Is there any real world logic behind not using contraception?

To me, it seems just like people who refuse to go to the doctor for any kind of treatment because it's not "natural".

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Not so much because of the Bible, as because of the tradition of the Church. Certain texts do support the ban on contraception, but not enough to extrapolate it from them. It is a matter of the continuous teaching of the Church.

There is logic behind it, but I don't have time to go into it now. Remind me later.