10-06-2005, 04:26 PM | #561 | ||
Elf Lord
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Now, I must confess that I've probably used similar tactics myself, but I do try not to. Honest. Now, that whole relativism/absolutism thing is a whole other can of worms. However, I will point out that I believe that relativism gets a lot of unwarranted abuse these days. To me, it is self-evident that all experience is subjective. Similarly, our experience of things like morals is subjective and, of course, influenced by our experiences. If I type "cat", you may get an image in your head, but it will be different from mine, and from everyone else who has not switched off their computer in disgust by this stage. Even more so if I type "evil" or "bad" or "wrong". That does not mean that they are not real, and that, particularly, their consequences are not real. Nor does it mean that someone else's ideas of "wrong" are just as good as mine. They might be wrong. (I'll save you the bother: .) To my mind, moral relativism is just a moral extension of being considerate (and not taking the "easy way out" by co-opting an arbitrary authority on the basis of superstition), and it means that I recognise the limits of my own experience in framing what I think about things. One of the cheapest tactics in any argument is to construct a false representation of an idea and then ridicule it. The idea that relativism means a moral free-for-all is, IMO, a good example of that. I don't think that you, Rian, would knowingly do that, but I see it A LOT and I think it filters through to many of the anti-relativist arguments. So anyway, in my judgment the consequences of multply manifest inequality towards homosexuals are so harmful that they nullify any censorious arguments based on, for example, health. Indeed, a truly moral being, IMO, has a responsibility to oppose such inequalities wherever they find them. Back to me taters.... dx PS - It was Spock who seemed to take umbrage, not you. |
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10-06-2005, 04:27 PM | #562 | |
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10-06-2005, 04:30 PM | #563 | |
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Actually it wanted to me register and I couldn't be arsed. |
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10-06-2005, 06:39 PM | #564 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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SO are you saying that neither one of us treat all people equally? Basically, my only remaining objection with you would be if YOU claim that you treat everyone equally and I don't.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 06:58 PM | #565 | |||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OTOH, that's the only way that I can "talk" with people on Entmoot, so I guess I have to make the best of it. I didn't mean at ALL to be dishonest. What I do mean to do is take up what I perceive to be your stance and then make what I think are valid points that show the errors/inconsistencies in the stance. Maybe it would have been better if I had said that's what I was doing, but I thought it would be very obvious since you know my opinion on that subject. I'm sorry if I caused you any grief - you know I like you a lot and value your friendship and would not cause you grief intentionallly. Quote:
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Again, I'm very sorry if I offended you - it was certainly unintentional - and I hope this post cleared things up a bit.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 06:59 PM | #566 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 07:51 PM | #567 |
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10-06-2005, 08:09 PM | #568 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...this is beginning to sound like dialogue from a Woody Allen movie.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
10-06-2005, 08:45 PM | #569 |
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I know, huh.
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10-06-2005, 08:48 PM | #570 | ||||
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RĂ*an, and darn it, I can't find the post where you said this first (probably on the previous page) but didn't you say something like you don't treat homosexuals equally WRT marriage, but pointed out that IRex doesn't treat siblings who want to marry equally? Well... if my reasoning for opposing sibling marriage is applied to gay married, you will see that this same reasoning finds no issue with gay marriage what-so-ever. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I do treat people equally. This doesn't mean I'm a better person than you or anything stupid like that, but it does mean I win this argument! Bwahahaha!! (I am only half-joking.) It occured to me today why the whole "marriage has always been between a man and a woman in the past, therefore it must always be this way in the future"-type arguments bother me so much. This is not a very logical approach to decision making. Imagine if we used this approach in other aspects of life... "This cheese has always been fresh, therefore it will always be fresh." "Marriage has always been between people of the same race, therefore it must always be this way in the future." etc. Spock, I hardly ever understand your posts. Woody Allen dialogue?
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10-06-2005, 08:49 PM | #571 |
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It's a terrible tragedy and a crime for ANYONE to abuse a child, and ESPECIALLY for someone in the church. It's also a terrible tragedy and crime for anyone to say "gays are bad".
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
10-06-2005, 08:51 PM | #572 | |
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I'm too tired to sort out the equality thing - it wasn't that simple, though. I'll get back to you later
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-06-2005, 08:56 PM | #573 | |||
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I realize the equality thing wasn't that simple. I thought I'd paraphrase it so you would know what comment/s I was talking about, and we could discuss it.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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10-06-2005, 09:33 PM | #574 | |
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-06-2005, 11:23 PM | #575 |
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Here you go, religious extreme-righters. Is THIS what you're all tryna say? An addiction, that gays should free themselves from - or what? Who does the elephant represent, here, and why?
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 10-06-2005 at 11:24 PM. |
10-06-2005, 11:48 PM | #576 | |||
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Interesting comic Lotesse. I see the point that it makes - if you want to fight the "evils" of homosexuality, there are definitely worse things in the world to deal with first. Also, it outlines the hypocrisy of the extreme Christian right*, though fortunately, I don't think any members of said right are posting in this thread. I'm almost missed the elephant reference , but I realized that elephant = Republicans! I feel so cosmopolitan now; I'm not even American. * I'm thinking of intolerance preached by members of a loving, inclusive religion
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 10-06-2005 at 11:49 PM. |
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10-07-2005, 12:47 AM | #577 |
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I still can't figure out what the elephant's supposed to represent other than the American Republican Party, which you got, Nurvi. I definitely see the outlining of the HEINOUS hypocrisy of the religious uber-right, who often use the Republican Party to hide under the skirts of. Hmm. I'm still waiting for the 'religious right' of the moot to make some sort of statement. *checks watch* Wonder where they've been keeping themselves, this evening...
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10-07-2005, 12:59 AM | #578 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-07-2005, 01:01 AM | #579 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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10-07-2005, 01:06 AM | #580 |
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I didn't name anyone. Did I name anyone? No, no I don't recall naming anyone as a PARTICULAR religious right-er. Ciao, Rian! So who do you think the elephant represents, and why do you think the elephant represents what he or she is depicted here as to represent?
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