06-21-2005, 01:34 PM | #561 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-21-2005, 04:19 PM | #562 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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generally it means an alcoholic!!
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06-21-2005, 06:44 PM | #563 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
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kind of a negative perception really .... implies character assasination or that you cannot therefore take or give any credence to what that person says or has posted ..... an attempt to sully or negate their opinion or the validity of their points or standpoint .... etc ..... to imply a form of moral corruption and thus attempt to taint or tar with unsaid and subtle ridicule.
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06-21-2005, 06:56 PM | #564 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Oh, sorry! I had no idea!
I certainly didn't mean that - I was just making a nickname for you.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-21-2005, 07:02 PM | #565 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
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*hiccups*
No problem. BB is fine with me! best BB |
06-21-2005, 07:23 PM | #566 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Posts: 15,254
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'K, BB!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-22-2005, 11:08 PM | #567 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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The Kansas Debate - how to teach evolution
I'm finding this fascinating!
The idea of teaching the whole truth about the theory of evolution (i.e., the areas where there are some problems) is really gaining some momentum, with Kansas as the current head. Some of the media coverage has just been insane, complete with name-calling ("pinheads") about people who actually want to give students MORE information about evolution. The Kansas school board does NOT even want to include "alternate" theories like ID, creationism, etc. - it just wants to include some scientific info on some of the problems that the theory of evolution currently doesn't handle well - and yet they get excoriated and ridiculed I'll gather some more info over the next week or so as I get the time, but here's a start - the proposed revisions are here. I especially like page 9, where they discuss historical hypotheses - I think it is very well explained and written, and certainly undeniably true. http://www.kansasscience2005.com/Pro...Sstandards.pdf You go, Kansans!! I'm all for more info for those students!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-22-2005, 11:08 PM | #568 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Posts: 15,254
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Evidence for Creationism
I'm finding this fascinating!
The idea of teaching the whole truth about the theory of evolution (i.e., the areas where there are some problems) is really gaining some momentum, with Kansas as the current head. Some of the media coverage has just been insane, complete with name-calling ("pinheads") about people who actually want to give students MORE information about evolution. The Kansas school board does NOT even want to include "alternate" theories like ID, creationism, etc. - it just wants to include some scientific info on some of the problems that the theory of evolution currently doesn't handle well - and yet they get excoriated and ridiculed I'll gather some more info over the next week or so as I get the time, but here's a start - the proposed revisions are here. I especially like page 9, where they discuss historical hypotheses - I think it is very well explained and written, and certainly undeniably true. http://www.kansasscience2005.com/Pro...Sstandards.pdf You go, Kansans!! I'm all for more info for those students!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-22-2005, 11:12 PM | #569 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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How old are Kansas students when they're taught about evolution?
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-22-2005, 11:12 PM | #570 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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How old are Kansas students when they're taught about evolution?
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-22-2005, 11:17 PM | #571 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Here is an excellent, excellent letter, IMHO, from a member of the (hang on, reference coming)
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...d=view&id=2568 Really objective and truthful, IMO. Lief - I believe it covers from 7th to 12th grade - there's info regarding changes made in the different grades. I need to read more, though.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-22-2005, 11:17 PM | #572 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Here is an excellent, excellent letter, IMHO, from a member of the (hang on, reference coming)
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...d=view&id=2568 Really objective and truthful, IMO. Lief - I believe it covers from 7th to 12th grade - there's info regarding changes made in the different grades. I need to read more, though.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-22-2005, 11:19 PM | #573 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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(the letter is so good that I"m quoting it here, instead of having people follow the link.)
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-22-2005, 11:19 PM | #574 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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(the letter is so good that I"m quoting it here, instead of having people follow the link.)
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-23-2005, 05:57 AM | #575 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
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I have no objection at all with the United States of America voluntarily becoming a nation of sub-scientific dullards at the behest of ranting 'christian' mullahs. In fact it is refreshingly different to see: past civilisations fought to hold onto their Golden Ages to the very last before descending into Dark Ages - whereas in the USA a lot of money is being spent on slick campaigns to actually hasten this about.
People like Skell know very well that few scientists would claim ANY theory is perfect and without controversial elements. It is the nature of scientific method to focus on problem areas and seek better understanding. However, there is a long-running and well-organised scam to undermine the USA's ban on teaching religion in schools - hence the campaign of misinformation (and let's face it, lies) directed at this one theory in particular. This is nothing to do with science, or 'seeing both sides of the argument' - and ALL about religion - and a rather primitive take on religion at that. As even the USA's remarkable scientific and technical advancement of the last century has not impinged upon the power base of churches that elsewhere in the world would be regarded as lunatic fringe cults, this campaign has gained ground. As the theory of evolution is no more controversial than many other scientific theories why not cut to the chase and stop teaching ANY science as fact? And once you've surrendered your lead in knowledge-based industries and turned out a generation of scientific sub-literates, concentrate on teaching Chinese instead. You'll be needing it.
__________________
I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
08-23-2005, 05:57 AM | #576 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
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I have no objection at all with the United States of America voluntarily becoming a nation of sub-scientific dullards at the behest of ranting 'christian' mullahs. In fact it is refreshingly different to see: past civilisations fought to hold onto their Golden Ages to the very last before descending into Dark Ages - whereas in the USA a lot of money is being spent on slick campaigns to actually hasten this about.
People like Skell know very well that few scientists would claim ANY theory is perfect and without controversial elements. It is the nature of scientific method to focus on problem areas and seek better understanding. However, there is a long-running and well-organised scam to undermine the USA's ban on teaching religion in schools - hence the campaign of misinformation (and let's face it, lies) directed at this one theory in particular. This is nothing to do with science, or 'seeing both sides of the argument' - and ALL about religion - and a rather primitive take on religion at that. As even the USA's remarkable scientific and technical advancement of the last century has not impinged upon the power base of churches that elsewhere in the world would be regarded as lunatic fringe cults, this campaign has gained ground. As the theory of evolution is no more controversial than many other scientific theories why not cut to the chase and stop teaching ANY science as fact? And once you've surrendered your lead in knowledge-based industries and turned out a generation of scientific sub-literates, concentrate on teaching Chinese instead. You'll be needing it.
__________________
I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
08-23-2005, 08:33 AM | #577 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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LOL.
My question would be: what is the right time, from an educational perspective, to introduce such critiques? I remember learning chemistry, in which almost everything that we'd done up to "O" Grade (age 15/16) was ditched when we went on to the quantum stuff for Highers (age 16/17). A lot of anomalies, like approximate atomic weights, weird patterns in the periodic table, etc, were explained. The point is, much of what we learn involves starting with simple stuff that we can get our heads around and then moves onto the complex stuff that turns it all on its head. If you're going to teach a biological theory, I would say there is no (pedagogical) point in starting by saying how geological remains from anomalous substrata show conflicting evidence regarding the validity of carbon-14 verification techniques. |
08-23-2005, 08:33 AM | #578 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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LOL.
My question would be: what is the right time, from an educational perspective, to introduce such critiques? I remember learning chemistry, in which almost everything that we'd done up to "O" Grade (age 15/16) was ditched when we went on to the quantum stuff for Highers (age 16/17). A lot of anomalies, like approximate atomic weights, weird patterns in the periodic table, etc, were explained. The point is, much of what we learn involves starting with simple stuff that we can get our heads around and then moves onto the complex stuff that turns it all on its head. If you're going to teach a biological theory, I would say there is no (pedagogical) point in starting by saying how geological remains from anomalous substrata show conflicting evidence regarding the validity of carbon-14 verification techniques. |
08-23-2005, 09:34 AM | #579 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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interesting... as i've said in the past, i've always thought that comparitive religions should be required subject matter probably from about 6th grade and on... and obviously, not just christianity... religion is a big part of the adult world, and the more you know about all the kinds that exist out there the better
that said, i'd probably keep excessive amounts of creationist theory out of the classroom (and excessive amounts of evolution for that matter)... even when i was in the middle grades, in the late 70s and in the "liberal" northeast, we learned about evolution and we also learned about the basics of creationism (both were mentioned respectfully in our textbooks and clearly presented as theories)... but honestly, the entire subject, from both sides, maybe took a week or two tops there is an awful lot to learn in the realm of science, so you really have to streamline presentations to students... and you also have to be sure to present theories in a way that allows them to make their own decisions and maybe even own theories as they understand... remember, one theory being wrong, in whole or in part, does not make another theory right... for all we know, there may be a third theory no one has considered yet that clears up a lot of the issues we see today so basically, i'd say it's best to lighten up a bit on both sides and not concentrate so intently on what is really a rather small part of what you learn about science during your school years
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
08-23-2005, 09:34 AM | #580 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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interesting... as i've said in the past, i've always thought that comparitive religions should be required subject matter probably from about 6th grade and on... and obviously, not just christianity... religion is a big part of the adult world, and the more you know about all the kinds that exist out there the better
that said, i'd probably keep excessive amounts of creationist theory out of the classroom (and excessive amounts of evolution for that matter)... even when i was in the middle grades, in the late 70s and in the "liberal" northeast, we learned about evolution and we also learned about the basics of creationism (both were mentioned respectfully in our textbooks and clearly presented as theories)... but honestly, the entire subject, from both sides, maybe took a week or two tops there is an awful lot to learn in the realm of science, so you really have to streamline presentations to students... and you also have to be sure to present theories in a way that allows them to make their own decisions and maybe even own theories as they understand... remember, one theory being wrong, in whole or in part, does not make another theory right... for all we know, there may be a third theory no one has considered yet that clears up a lot of the issues we see today so basically, i'd say it's best to lighten up a bit on both sides and not concentrate so intently on what is really a rather small part of what you learn about science during your school years
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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