05-23-2006, 04:13 PM | #561 | |
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I think the answer on this issue, when we finally get to hear it in person, will not be so simple as you think ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-23-2006, 04:35 PM | #562 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I honestly don't know. It might, but as I explained before, I don't think that's the determining factor in deciding whether to allow gay marriage. I think that changes in, for example, how blacks are viewed in the US right after slavery was outlawed came about because it IS true that blacks are just the same as whites. So I think that making gay marriage legal would NOT have the same effect because I think that it's NOT "true", for lack of a better word, that marriage can be between two men or two women. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 05-23-2006 at 04:40 PM. |
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05-23-2006, 08:48 PM | #563 | ||
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05-23-2006, 08:51 PM | #564 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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All in all, I think you have the right approach there, Ri.
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05-24-2006, 12:02 AM | #565 | ||
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People using gay as an insult ticks me right off. Gay is an acceptable term for a homosexual person though. I like it since it's much less formal.
I don't think I'd feel differently if I was actually gay either.
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05-24-2006, 12:28 AM | #566 |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../23/ngay23.xml
Comments? The first investigation seems to have been inadequate.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-24-2006, 12:47 AM | #567 | |
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And that leads to the belief that the people themselves are unnatural and outside the bounds of acceptable society. Which in turn leads to a great deal of emotinal, psychological and physical harm. Yes, another excuse would be found and used by those who truly do intend harm and nothing else, but that doesn't mean that legalizing gay marriage would be completely ineffective in fighting the discrimination.
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05-24-2006, 01:18 AM | #568 |
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the UN and homosexuals and (it's an international issue) pedophiles:
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06051902.html
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-24-2006, 11:07 PM | #569 | |
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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05-25-2006, 11:47 AM | #570 | |
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To make it clear, Ratzinger tried to investigate this, and was ordered to back off by JPII- does this count as a miracle towards canonisation? A miracle for Father Maciel, anyway, being allowed to get away with it so long. |
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05-25-2006, 12:04 PM | #571 |
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Sounds pretty suspicious. The Church has used accusations of homosexuality to discredit powerful men before. They have set themselves up as judge, jury, and executioner. Condone this action, and you condone backroom justice. Either there is enough to move forward with a trial, or there is not. If not, then this may be an attempt to weaken the influence of a very powerful order within the Church.
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05-25-2006, 12:13 PM | #572 | ||
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05-25-2006, 12:25 PM | #573 | |
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After the manifold coverups of the Catholic Church in many countries over many years, and their attempts to use political influence to obstruct investigations of these crimes, the last thing I'm worrying about is a frame-up by the Church. It's become obvious that only the threat of civil and criminal action has forced them to address these abuses. I was extremely skeptical of Ratzinger, given his history of crushing dissent, but it appears that at least on this issue he is serious about "the filth" (his words) swamping the Church. |
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05-25-2006, 02:03 PM | #574 | ||
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Last edited by GreyMouser : 05-25-2006 at 02:05 PM. |
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05-25-2006, 02:36 PM | #575 |
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Oh yeah, "filth" is the typical emotion laden way they approach what should be an objective civil case.
Fact is, despite thousands of charges against priests that they are gay, there have been very few cases tried. If you care about justice, then the possibility of a frame-up by the Church should not be ruled out. It shouldn't be "the last thing" to worry about. In fact, historically, it should be the first thing to suspect. |
05-25-2006, 04:11 PM | #576 | |
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And even if legalizing gay marriage did lessen homophobia, it does other things on the harmful side that far outweigh that good, IMO. It's certainly a complex issue, and I never lose sight that we're talking about people here, even when my posts are somewhat "technical".
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-25-2006, 08:47 PM | #577 | ||
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05-26-2006, 10:53 AM | #578 | |
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I must protest that I do not resemble that remark! I was merely pointing out that the issue has world-wide import and I must confess that I was frankly astonished at this. I was amused by the odd political bed-fellows (is that a sexist term, by the way, implying as it does the maleness of parties? but I meant no pun) as well as you. On the other hand, one can get a clear picture of the attitudes culturally engendered, can one not? And we know that since each society determines its own norms which are morally true (per BJ), how can you suggest that there is any difference between choices? Rather, you should select prenatally (best of all pre-fertilization!) where you shoul be born. That would solve the problem, eh?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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05-26-2006, 11:30 AM | #579 | |
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In short, our prejudice inclines us to presume guilt whenever a priest is accused of sex abuse. Then when the Church decides not to prosecute, when they decide to let an old man avoid a trial that could kill him, provided he agree to censure, we assume that the accusers must be right. Because of homophobia. |
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05-26-2006, 07:30 PM | #580 |
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I don't assume the accusers are right; I don't know about you. And anyway, I don't see how homophobia would make people assume that the accusers are right; more likely, anti-clericalism would. We ain't just talking about homosexuality, but abuse.
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