Discussion Thread Number 4 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Rían]

For anyone who is interested, since I finished the "poetry battle" posts a month and a half ago, I've been averaging LESS than one post a day.

[probably very uninteresting to others thing]During the reunion and poetry battle scenes, I had the very odd and quite new sensation of being "pregnant" with a story, and felt like I just had to get it born (you men and non-moms won't fully understand what it's like when you're in your 9th month and can't WAIT!!!) and that's why I posted so much. That was a very unique experience for me, and it was cool for me because I FINALLY understood something of what Tolkien wrote about when he spoke of similar things that he felt. [/probably very uninteresting to others thing]

Originally Posted by Gordis

And this one, perhaps, he is a relative of those who rebuilt the Library, but never returned?

oh, great idea!

Originally Posted by Gordis

Rian is never very specific.

[whisper]Rian is terrified of maps![/whisper]

Originally Posted by Udu

Rian, there are several fountains on the university grounds.

Wait, wait - he's by a TREE - not all the trees are by fountains, are they? Aren't there just some sprinkled around? He's staying in the shadows - he wouldn't go up to a fountain.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

yes, you are a border line rpg spammer! its official. 96 game play posts to your name!

I resemble that remark!

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Wait, wait - he's by a TREE - not all the trees are by fountains, are they? Aren't there just some sprinkled around? He's staying in the shadows - he wouldn't go up to a fountain.

Rian, this would be a question best answered by the Evil Cartographer. Where, O Dark Map Maker, are the trees?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Rian, this would be a question best answered by the Evil Cartographer. Where, O Dark Map Maker, are the trees?

The trees are sort of scattered everywhere. By the walls there are ordinary trees, while near Aiwendis's fountain there are more exotic plants, like in a botanical garden, and flower beds. But everywhere plenty of place to hide in shadows. NOT like a French regular garden!

Dark Map Maker

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The trees are sort of scattered everywhere. By the walls there are ordinary trees, while near Aiwendis's fountain there are more exotic plants, like in a botanical garden, and flower beds. But everywhere plenty of place to hide in shadows. NOT like a French regular garden!

Dark Map Maker

Thank you, Dark Map Maker.

Rian, there are plenty of trees around. I am reminded somewhat of Nellas, the Elf who hid in the tree as she watched Saeros attack Turin. When Thingol questioned her, she was so intimidated that she replied, "I was sitting in a tree-" but could say no more. He replied, "Others have done this also, but have felt no need to tell me of it."

[Rían]

I love that little bit with Thingol and Nellas! One of the few times that I have liked Thingol. I don't see what Melian saw in him, but then JRRT never developed him much. Give me Fingon every time!

SO - one of the places where there is a tree is by my angsty Alagos. He will be more than happy to just listen and observe the quiet grounds, and then quietly slip out and go home, or if anyone wants to interact with him, he's up to that - it's up to you guys. But he will not be "surprised" - he IS an elf on alert, after all ... I guess the only exception would be if one of the Nazgul comes up to him invisibly, but at the alert level he's at, I think he would hear something ... Anyway, gtg get the kids - I'll check his fate when I get back

[The last sane person]

Yes, alagos is in a random tree, and there are many in and around Tharbad....GET SPECIFIC! You twity elf, how else are we supposed to know where to collide our characters into yours?

[Gordis]

Here I have posted the plan of the Tower and the explanations about Minas Aran into the Info thread.

here is the link for the lazy ones:
http://www.entmoot.com/showpost.php?...8&postcount=32

The SHEDULE is also there.

Evil Cartographer

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The trees are sort of scattered everywhere. By the walls there are ordinary trees, while near Aiwendis's fountain there are more exotic plants, like in a botanical garden, and flower beds. But everywhere plenty of place to hide in shadows. NOT like a French regular garden!

Dark Map Maker

well, i only popped on to reply to a pm out of courtesy... but ..

being a map maker is one thing, but it is another thing entirely from giving you solely the power to dictate the layout of the university grounds and the enviroment of the university, of tharbad, or the whole rpg landscape.

this is and always has been a joint writing rpg without a GM. This implies listening to other's concerns and deciding things jointly. Not unilaterally dictating the world rpg'ed in.

i find it very distasteful and frankly hypocritical to request edit after edit, nit pick after nit pick, after nit pick, to attempt to dictate what other players should do next, then to harangue others who have a valid concern and then write reams of loaded questions and pointed remarks, when one asks you to look at a post of yours.

not to mention pointed remarks about not arguing and then having an incredible strop, and posting remark after remark designed to cause arguments, making accusations of personal attacks that just plain were not there nor meant in whatever wierd and wonderful way you managed to percive it????

well, sorry for speaking my mind, Gor but i can say it no clearer than that i find it hypocritical.

I also feel you should let others too enjoy the game and not attempt to dictate or stifle it - although i was not happy either you or UDU deleted your posts so promptly rather than acting maturely and at least having a look at the post - i did not see reams of vitriol in here from Udu - he has acted maturely and like a gentleman in this regard.

No one,certainly not me, said a few spies or getting the rumours was a bad idea .. nor that they did not like the new character (quite the reverse in FACT) ... but what was originally written was far and away beyond that and could you look at it ...

nor did i ever call udu stupid ... i said the post about maybe the dead maid talked was stupid - which, no offence, udu, but it is

not only because we would have to re-write the whole thing and that esp after so much discussion went into that in the first place .. but because it just seemed like you 2 would not even consider the implications nor genuine concerns of other rpg-ers, and were just coming out with wierd answers??? (which, yes, i considered inflammtory rather than helpful - you see - if there is a concern about a new undiscussed aspect that would effectively alter the game and every posters character or implication forwhat they write - then defending it by a odd, impossible to have happened "maybe..." which initself overturns what has already happened and been discussed by many many here, is just not helpful, is it? It also implies a lack of respect for other's thoughts, opinions and equal right to discuss the rpg. (which is why i considered in context of everyone calming down it was inflammatory)

this is a joint writing rpg and to my mind EVERYONE has equal rights to add their opinion, thoughts and ideas ... this should be a fun, joint rpg - and if one asks for edits then they should at least have the decency to consider them themsleves, and if one requests less arguing and alleged "personal attacks" then they should not then go and do them themselves, IMO.


btw ..why would it be french??? (or rather NOT french??? - the gardens that is)

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

SO - one of the places where there is a tree is by my angsty Alagos. He will be more than happy to just listen and observe the quiet grounds, and then quietly slip out and go home, or if anyone wants to interact with him, he's up to that - it's up to you guys. But he will not be "surprised" - he IS an elf on alert, after all ... I guess the only exception would be if one of the Nazgul comes up to him invisibly, but at the alert level he's at, I think he would hear something ... Anyway, gtg get the kids - I'll check his fate when I get back

Rian, I do not think that Alagos will hear much of anything from Sapthan. He is just sitting there on a bench, quietly looking at the fountain. He will talk if someone approaches him.

[Lotesse]

Can someone please respond to Butterbeer's post that he made just now? Why does he have to be ignored?

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

being a map maker is one thing, but it is another thing entirely from giving you solely the power to dictate the layout of the university grounds and the enviroment of the university, of tharbad, or the whole rpg landscape.

Butterbeer, they were just answering Rian's question. There's nothing stopping the rest of us from adding to that answer.
We've just managed to calm down from this last argument, if you still feel the need to discuss the matter with Gordis and Udu please do so through private messaging. You have valid points, but you've written them in such a way that people will inevitably feel slighted and inclined to take sides which is exactly what we've been trying to prevent from happening in this thread.

I refuse to allow the tempers in this thread to flare up just as the holiday break is starting. None of us need the stress of arguing online. Please, please try to keep tempers in check everyone.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

I refuse to allow the tempers in this thread to flare up just as the holiday break is starting. None of us need the stress of arguing online.

O.K., true that, true that. But still, myself personally, I feel there's too much unanswered & unaddressed stuff here that needs polite, grown-up addressing and acknowledgement on BOTH sides before I can feel comfortable with continuing, even though it's not me directly that has an issue. I cannot "take sides," I respect & enjoy so much Gordis, Udu, Butterbeer, Rian and everyone; there's no "side" to take, but it feels so unbalanced and undiplomatic and hypocritical and stuff like that lately. Which sux SO BAD, because I love playing Viv, of course esPECIally with Shah, but if I have to feel like every little piece I write is going to be pecked to death by ducks when we should all just be having FUN together, and getting along, with just a few little adjustments here & there every ONCE in a while not EVERY SINGLE POST... where in the hell is the fun anymore? Where's the camaraderie? Where's the humour, the solidarity of the Nine, the freedom of expression?

so anyway...

But it's still quite nice 2 read what others post. I just feel pretty gunshy to post anything of my own. Those rabid ducks, and all.

[Rían]

I'll address BB's post - I just got in, and have 5 minutes before going out again *sigh*

BB - from my POV, as far as the map stuff only, I think Gordis is doing us a favor by doing these map things, and I have the feeling that if anyone objected to something that was done, that Gordis would take that into account and be very willing to change it. I think Gordis took it on as a favor, and I'm grateful that Gordis is doing it for us.

As far as the last dust-up - there were obviously hurt feelings and misunderstandings in the last dust-up, and some angry words and insulting terms used, but I think it was straightened out about as well as it could have been; the posts were restored and edited, and I think it would be wise to finish addressing any remaining things via PM, in order to not risk losing the entire rpg for everyone. That's my opinion, given only since Lotesse asked for someone to address your post. I think it was resolved to a sufficient point, and all the minor points will NEVER be resolved - I think it was sufficiently resolved enough to drop it at this point. That's my opinion - others may have different ones. It's SO hard to deal by typed "talking", because body language accounts for such a huge percentage of our communication, and it's totally absent from these posts, so I think we need to be extra careful and patient with each other. I really, really enjoy you and your posts, and hope you are OK with considering things closed at this point in time.

Lotesse - did you see where I addressed my post rate? I'm under 1 post a day now, since I finished the reunion/poetry battle scene. Also, if you really want to bring up some general discussion points, I'd say go ahead, but please be careful, and just stop and think if it's worth it or not. I know I have some issues (some minor, some major) with some posters here, but have decided to just let them go and not discuss them, because I know we're all different. But of course it's up to you what you do, and if you really feel you need to bring things up, then go ahead, as far as I'm concerned at least.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I'll address BB's post -

That's my opinion, given only since Lotesse asked for someone to address your post.

Why did you only address BB because I asked for someone to address his post?? Why couldn't you just do it on your own; is he not good enough to bother?

And Rian, and everyone, almost every time I've mentioned a point or had issue with something here, OFTENtimes and more often than not, what I've said has gone either completely buried and ignored, or just been glossed over, and not taken seriously.

I have so had it with this crap. It used to be fun, but now it's all about what certain people agree to and want, and certain other people get ignored or glossed over. IT IS NO FUN. I am tired of repeating myself in this disc. thread, three and four and five times, just to get HEARD never mind acknowledged.

Just because we ignore a problem or grievance, doesn't mean it gowes away and everything's suddenly fine.

And Rian, so what about the post count; I don't care about the friggin' post count, O.K.? Whatever.

But you DO tend to post four or five disc. posts in a row, and quite often it totally buries little posts that others write in disc. When I need to add to something that I've written, or feel I have forgotten a little thing to say, I go back and edit-to-add in the previous post, as much as possible, rather than posting four, five times in a ROW.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Polite, grown-up addressing and acknowledging is good, just we need to be sure to keep it polite.

Now, about the nit-picking. There is more nit-picking going on here than in any other role-play I've experienced. However, from what I've seen, it is not every post that gets nitpicked, in fact, it isn't remotely close to every post.

What keeps happening is that every few pages or so someone will take exception to someone else's post, and they will ask for an edit, without having been invited to ask. This sparks a discussion, and as more people join in the discussion in turns into an argument, people lose their tempers and stop posting for a day or so in order to calm down.

As this is going on though, those of us not involved in the arguing keep posting and eventually the story moves on.

I think what needs to happen is not more discussion. We all know that we need to respect eachother, we all know that we need to and are entitled to contribute to the story, and we know that when writing significant interactions with other people's characters it is polite to give the other person a chance to request an edit.

What needs to happen is for people to stop abusing that right to request edits and to move with the story.
I think some advice we should keep in mind when playing here is the first rule of improvisation, which I've posted before but deserves repetition.

Always say yes.

As this is writing and not acting it is permissible to say no when there is absolutely no way you can work with what you've been given, but in all other circumstances, just ignore the edit button and go with it. It really is pointless to argue about details in posts that were made two pages ago. It wastes both time and space. Don't do it.

[The last sane person]

Jimany....this thread is just like a hotspot on the sun, SOMEthing is always flaring up!

Anyhows, I have no fear that something is gonna be nibbled to death by ducks...after all, thats what my handy dandy RPG 12 gauge is for!

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Why did you only address BB because I asked for someone to address his post?? Why couldn't you just do it on your own; is he not good enough to bother?

He is good enough to bother, I believe there was hesitation in addressing his most recent post because it seemed to be addressed directly to Gordis and Udu and because it was exactly the type of post that starts these arguments.

I would also like to note that by the time I saw his post I had already seen your request that someone respond. It's possible that no one else had gotten the chance to respond before you did.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Lady Marion Magdalena

Polite, grown-up addressing and acknowledging is good, just we need to be sure to keep it polite.

Now, about the nit-picking. There is more nit-picking going on here than in any other role-play I've experienced. However, from what I've seen, it is not every post that gets nitpicked, in fact, it isn't remotely close to every post.

What keeps happening is that every few pages or so someone will take exception to someone else's post, and they will ask for an edit, without having been invited to ask. This sparks a discussion, and as more people join in the discussion in turns into an argument, people lose their tempers and stop posting for a day or so in order to calm down.

As this is going on though, those of us not involved in the arguing keep posting and eventually the story moves on.

I think what needs to happen is not more discussion. We all know that we need to respect eachother, we all know that we need to and are entitled to contribute to the story, d we know that when writing significant interactions with other people's characters it is polite to give the other person a chance to request an editan.

What needs to happen is for people to stop abusing that right to request edits and to move with the story.
I think some advice we should keep in mind when playing here is the first rule of improvisation, which I've posted before but deserves repetition.

Always say yes.

As this is writing and not acting it is permissible to say no when there is absolutely no way you can work with what you've been given, but in all other circumstances, just ignore the edit button and go with it. It really is pointless to argue about details in posts that were made two pages ago. It wastes both time and space. Don't do it.

O.K., so then why is it when some of us asked for edits to Gordis' and Udu's spy/gossip posts that they got so incredibly miffed and insulted and instead of doing a little adjustment or edit here & there and working in TANdem with us, did they just throw the baby out with the bathwater and entirely delete their posts, then call us who had issue "inflammatory," and stuff like that? It was nice that they rewrote them, and what both Gordis & Udu writes is always very, very good writing, but couldn't they have edited a little instead like they expect everyone else to do when there's a problem? One way street, I guess.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

Because those posts dealt with their characters only. The rest of us were mentioned in the passing of information which they believed their characters were justified in having. They did not invite edit requests for those posts and were very likely surprised that the posts got the reaction they did. This put them on the defensive, and things went downhill from there.