05-22-2006, 07:37 PM | #541 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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So Elfhelm, what do you think of my comments about judging? I think that's an excellent topic for this thread.
(We should prob. move the strictly homosexual stuff to the gay/les/bi thread or the homosexual marriage thread.)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-22-2006, 08:40 PM | #542 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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2) The Virgin Birth is found in the Canonical works, which are very old; thus, by your logic, it seems that 3) The word "brother" was used to mean other things long before that. Abraham says that Sarah is his sister, and she his brother, though strictly they are only half-siblings. The word "brother" is used throughout the story of Joseph, even though only Benjamin is his full brother. In Matthew 18, "brother" is used in three different verses in what seems to be a universal meaning, along the lines of "who is my neighbour?" In the next chapter, Christ says, "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life." I assume this does not mean if you leave two brothers for His sake, your mother and father will have two hundred more sons. Rather, the word is being used in a figurative sense. In Matthew 23:8, Christ says "you are all brothers": again, figurative. The list goes on, but you get the idea. Note also Mark 3:33-34: " 33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."" Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 05-22-2006 at 08:42 PM. |
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05-22-2006, 09:43 PM | #543 | |
Elf Lord
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Let me know. http://www.cwnews.com/news/dossier/view.cfm?id=34
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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05-23-2006, 10:52 AM | #544 |
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Why on Earth would I even bother reading this woman in the first place? I can tell from the blurb that she's one of those people who thinks a thought then bends everything to proving it. I'm sure it's of interest only to people who want to believe her major premise, or who want to argue against it. For me it would be a waste of time. I'll stick with the texts themselves.
edit: I read it. It's a well-written response. It's silly to go off on one tangent arguing that Iranaeus was seeking control whe in fact it can be much more easily proven that Marcion was actually trying to use money to gain that control over the orthodoxy. And Marcion wouldn't even admit any other gospel than his particular version of Luke and Acts. Last edited by Elfhelm : 05-23-2006 at 11:00 AM. |
05-25-2006, 01:10 PM | #545 |
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I just figured out why inked keeps harping on Pagels. Because she's quoted in The DaVinci Code. A dubious source for a dubious book. They're made for each other.
But I do, in fact, have an issue with the Church's take on Mary Magdalen. The early Church fathers held that there were three different women named Maria, not one as depicted in Gregory "the Great's" Homily 33. I do think it was awfully convenient to conflate the three women then cast all the sins of Eve on her and on all women. But perhaps there are those who would prefer to turn a blind eye to the Church's history of miscogyny. What misogyny? We revere women, just like the Muslims, by keeping them barefoot and pregnant. |
05-25-2006, 04:31 PM | #546 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Hey people - any comments on my post #535 about judging? I'd love to hear some thoughts!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-25-2006, 07:03 PM | #547 | |
Elf Lord
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Barefoot? There were some restrictions on women in the Bible, but not very oppressive. It says to respect and submit to the husband, but then it also tells the husband to love his wife and be willing to die a horrible death for her if need be. Those instructions are bound together and work together. Then there also was a restriction that said they weren't to talk in church, but that could easily be referring simply to gossiping or distracting chatter. Women often are more communicative than men are, so such an instruction that refers specifically to them may have been well placed. Women were very well treated in the Christianity.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-25-2006, 07:15 PM | #548 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I agree.
(I'm barefoot right now, but it's by my own choice I love being barefoot!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
05-25-2006, 07:44 PM | #549 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Rabbit-trail, of course, and one I sent you down. My apology.
But the point is what Gregory "the Great" did in Homily 33. |
05-25-2006, 07:50 PM | #550 | |
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2) Burning people, or otherwise killing them for whatever reason was most definitely not confined to christianity. Were the Communists christians?
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05-25-2006, 09:16 PM | #551 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Undoubtedly. They did kill large numbers of people, after all.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
05-25-2006, 11:46 PM | #552 |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
05-25-2006, 11:58 PM | #553 |
Elf Lord
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Here's an article relevant to the judgment issue R*an was talking about: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5015552.stm
The article shows an example of people judging the people rather than the act. These 75 "Christians" openly hate homosexuals. There is a major difference between them with their waving of derogative signs, insulting bereaved families at funerals, and people who love homosexuals, holding friendships with them even as they believe they are involved in self-destructive behavior. There is a difference between those who attack others and those who seek to help them understand that their behavior is self-destructive so that they will cease to destroy themselves out of genuine caring for the other people. That desire to help is good, whether they are incorrect about this being a sin or not. If you believe that using computers is evil, then you might out of love try to convince me to stop using computers, and that would be an act of love if you did it in a respectful and kind way. On the other hand, if you believed that using computers is evil and started attacking me as an evil person for using computers, that would be judging. That is what Jesus would have us stop, but gently trying to lead people to a better way and helping people to change from wrong behavior out of love was a course of action he approved of and practiced himself all the time.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
05-26-2006, 03:54 AM | #554 | |
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No two ways around the matter. You merely add a preferential moral filter to the distinction. best BB (Wotcha Lief btw! ) Last edited by Butterbeer : 05-26-2006 at 03:56 AM. |
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05-26-2006, 10:45 AM | #555 | |
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Yet we do say that God acts in them (or some of us so believe!).
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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05-26-2006, 11:35 AM | #556 | ||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Here's one example of what I mean about judgment. I have several times heard Christians pray for the spiritual transformation of Abu Musab al Zarqawi and Saddam Hussein, praying that they shall come to know God and find salvation for their souls. At the same time, they have nothing but hatred for these people's actions. They judge the evil actions for what they are: evil, but they do not condemn the people, but rather pray for them.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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05-26-2006, 11:40 AM | #557 | |
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I think Gregory was wrong to do this. Before him we had examples of good women like Mary and Martha, and the converted priestess from Magdala. After him we just had tainted women who are the source of all sin. Very sad. Just one more reason I say the Church has perverted Jesus' teachings. |
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05-26-2006, 12:10 PM | #558 | |
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2) Does that make it OK? |
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05-26-2006, 04:46 PM | #559 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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If so, you just made a judgement yourself It's my judgement that this would be a great topic for discussion!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-26-2006, 05:55 PM | #560 | |
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And round and round it goes! It's called merry-go-round rhetoric, and it leads NOWHERE!
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