05-03-2005, 12:23 AM | #541 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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You probably know about Messianic Jews, don't you? They are Jews by birth, but they have become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah for whom they were waiting. My understanding is that they continue to be "Jewish" in every way - following all of their traditions, but that they consider Jesus to be the Messiah. I've even heard use of the term 'Completed Jew' rather than 'Converted Jew' (and I don't know what kinds of experiences, if any, you may have had in these regards, so I don't intend any offense here). It was similar in the early days of the Christian Church. All of the earliest Christians were Jewish. They all continued to keep the whole law. Finally, the gospel of Jesus reached the Gentiles as well (through the Jewish-Christian messengers), and the Jewish leadership was of two minds; some thought that all Gentiles who became Christians should have to accept all the traditions of Judaism. Others thought that was too much for them to bear - and suggested more minimal requirements. It was the latter group who won out - there's an interesting account of it in Acts 15 (and in fact - we see outreach to the Gentiles beginning more substantially from Acts 10 onward). I wonder if they were thinking, "Oi vey ( ),... Jesus didn't tell us what to do about THIS!" Anyway - when the Romans came in and booted everyone out of Palestine in about 65 to 70 AD, I think that triggered further separation between Jews who were Christians and Jews who were not. And... I think it became difficult for later generations of Christians who were descended from Jews to continue their Jewish practices - when those they worshipped with did not do so. I think it is very valid though for Jews who become Christians to follow the entire Jewish Law - especially if their conscience dictates that they do so. I also think though that most of them do not consider themselves saved by following the Law, but by the grace of Jesus - but that it's right for them to follow the Law anyway. If you're at all interested in checking it out, I've heard that the gospel according to Matthew (the first book in the New Testament - and the first four are all 'gospels' - accounts of the life of Jesus) resonates most easily with Jews. Acts (fifth book) is early church history after Jesus - and can be fun if you're interested in the historical aspect. Most of the rest of the NT is 'epistles' or letters - and some good basic ones are Romans (lots of exposition on 'law' vs 'grace'), Hebrews and James (both of which are specifically addressed to Jews) (if you want to sort of take a 'self-guided' tour to see how Christianity is so tightly tied to Judaism - and how much more so it was perceived to be in the First Century AD).
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 05-03-2005 at 12:26 AM. |
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05-03-2005, 09:22 PM | #542 |
Elf Lord
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An interesting review of a book re: the fastest growing religion in the world:
evangelical Christianity- http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/m...p?storyid=2415
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 09:53 AM | #543 |
Elf Lord
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And, for those who might be interested in the warm fuzziness of Islam in Saudi Arabia:
http://www.nysun.com/article/13103 Note particularly the last sentence of the article...rather chillingly direct.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 10:43 AM | #544 |
Quasi Evil
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More christian cheerleading I see. Goooooo CHRISTIANS! Beat those Muslims! We're the BEST because theres so many of us! And Muslims play dirty and KILL people! Yay!
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
05-04-2005, 10:58 AM | #545 |
Elf Lord
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IR, I see you still suffer from situs inversus! Seriously, if it were reversed, would you be saying the same? Just a genteel reminder that all religions are not created equal............ .
Visualize whirled peas!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 11:23 AM | #546 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I think before we start bashing religions of the world, remember the Crusades which basically was fighting to stop Islam from conquering the known world. *check your history and see the extent of Islam conquered states at that period*. Then there is China which is systematically arresting and killing Christians within its borders and Tibetians, to this very day.
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05-04-2005, 11:46 AM | #547 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-04-2005, 12:01 PM | #548 |
Elf Lord
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IR,
Excellent. Equal opportunity criticism on Islamic and Christian issues on boards. So how do "feel" about the situation in Saudi Arabia in regards to human rights and freedom of religion as, say, compared to the EU or USA?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 03:34 PM | #549 |
Elf Lord
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IR,
Criticise this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../04/do0402.xml I'd transpose it but then I'd be accused of verbosity!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 03:42 PM | #550 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 05-04-2005 at 03:44 PM. |
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05-04-2005, 04:28 PM | #551 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-04-2005, 04:51 PM | #552 |
Elf Lord
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Attribution to Erik Nelson at midwest conservative journal blog:
"This is one of those areas where the historical illiteracy of most Americans causes severe problems. Few seem to understand that the Crusades were a response to the invasion of Europe. Fewer seem to know that Christians eventually lost the battle with Islam in the Holy Land, even though it did eventually drive out the invasion from a good deal of Europe (though not, as we well know, from Eastern Europe and the Balkans). It is difficult to learn the difficult historical lessons of the Islamic invasions and the Crusades unless those telling the story are honest. Sir Ridley Scott's tale (like Sir Walter Scott's tale before him, and from which the new story is derived) paint fantasies, not histories. When shoehorned into modern political correctness, the lessons cannot be learned. In fact, they may be lost forever. Ridley Scott's tall tale will, in the end, only exacerbate the trends he wishes to avoid by sanitizing history and obscuring, rather than revealing, the truth." If the Islamics had won, history would have been different, IR. So, too, if Germany had won either WWI or II. What you did was rabidly attack Christianity again primarily. Now, how about that equal opportunity assessment ?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 06:12 PM | #553 | ||||
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-04-2005, 09:18 PM | #554 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-04-2005, 09:49 PM | #555 | ||||
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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05-05-2005, 05:04 AM | #556 | ||
Lady of Letters
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As for the attitude to the Normans, most of the baddies in English literature have French/Norman names - look at the Harry Potter series for proof (Potter, Weasley, Dumbledore vs. Malfoy, Voldemort, Lestrange ). English dislike of the French starts in 1066 and shows no signs of ending yet. Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 05-05-2005 at 05:05 AM. |
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05-05-2005, 11:09 AM | #557 | |
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05-05-2005, 11:17 AM | #558 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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..that's ok Chrys, "it's only a flesh wound".
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05-05-2005, 01:38 PM | #559 | |
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05-05-2005, 01:51 PM | #560 |
Lady of Letters
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This is what I mean about the bad press they get...
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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